Thread: Can people please stop pretending...

Originally Posted by Davii

Cassell is pretty damned familiar with the KC offense as well... But they didn't go deep in the playoffs with him. So why did he play so much better in NE?

As far as a complete teams NE is better than KC. KC is still rebuilding. Are you trying to say that KC is on the same level as NE? lol

Also, go back to Cassells first year with KC. He was terrible the first year in that system.

I have to agree with those here who feel Brady is just part of the machine. If Orton played in NE I think he might have a ring.

I would take that bet.

Originally Posted by Northman

As far as a complete teams NE is better than KC. KC is still rebuilding. Are you trying to say that KC is on the same level as NE? lol

Also, go back to Cassells first year with KC. He was terrible the first year in that system.



I would take that bet.

I'm doing the opposite of saying that they're on the same level, and you somewhat made my point for me...

Cassel takes over for Brady and the tem really didn't miss a beat. So is Cassell every but as good as Brady? Hell no. If cassell can lead a team to more our less the same place Brady could that doesn't make Brady the GOAT.

I'm not taking anything away from Tom, he's a great qb and deserves his eventual place in Canton, but we have hard evidence that his team can survive him going down for an extended time. We have proof of the opposite for the Colts. After all the OP asked if we can stop pretending that Brady is more important to his team.

Well, the results of the only time we can look too speak volumes.

Originally Posted by Davii

I'm not taking anything away from Tom, he's a great qb and deserves his eventual place in Canton, but we have hard evidence that his team can survive him going down for an extended time. We have proof of the opposite for the Colts.

Well, no it doesnt and i pointed to why.

Collins has been in that system for 3 weeks. Cassell was in the NE system for years.

Originally Posted by BaileyTheBest

that Tom Brady is or ever was in Peyton Manning's league? Without Brady the Pats went 11-5. Without Manning the Colts are the most inept team in the league.

Yes I know Brady has Manning 3-1 in Super Bowls, but using that logic, you would have to say that Terry Bradshaw was twice the QB Elway was. Brady has had the huge benefit of the best head coach in the league and a good defense supporting him. Peyton Manning IS the Colts.

Brady is a great QB...but I agree that he is not in Peyton (Jughead)'s league. Peyton is a once in a lifetime QB. Would I take Brady? Absolutely! If they were both up for grabs.......Peyton all day long. It doesn't even take consideration...it's automatic.

What happened with the Colts today reminds me of early in Elway's career when the Broncos rode his coat tails to the playoffs and Super Bowls, but when he wasn't playing the Broncos were absolutely ineffective.

Originally Posted by Davii

So you're saying Brady only gets them 3-5 wins per year?

I agree that the Patriots are a better team, which is why I don't agree that Brady is better than Manning. Brady has been on teams with superior talent and coaching every time they've won a SB, and a few times they didn't. Manning had been on some good teams, but I would never say they were superior, definitely not both O and D at the same time.

If all things were equal Peyton wins more games than Brady.

Brady is and always will be better then Peyton. Funny how they go from Bledsoe to Brady and Bam 3 SB wins in 4 years. Amazing how that happens.

Don't really think its Bradys fault that his backups have been better then Mannings back ups.

If Denver could have 1 QB out of those 2, I'd want it to be Brady obviously. 3 seasons of 14-2 and 1 season of 16-0? yea, I'll take that.

Originally Posted by BroncoBJ

Brady is and always will be better then Peyton. Funny how they go from Bledsoe to Brady and Bam 3 SB wins in 4 years. Amazing how that happens.

Don't really think its Bradys fault that his backups have been better then Mannings back ups.

If Denver could have 1 QB out of those 2, I'd want it to be Brady obviously. 3 seasons of 14-2 and 1 season of 16-0? yea, I'll take that.

Its not like Peyton has played with scrubs either. Their Dline is worlds better than NE's. And most of his career Manning has had better receivers to go to than Brady has. Manning is a great QB, no doubt. But he's not worlds above or even better than Brady in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Northman

Its not like Peyton has played with scrubs either. Their Dline is worlds better than NE's. And most of his career Manning has had better receivers to go to than Brady has. Manning is a great QB, no doubt. But he's not worlds above or even better than Brady in my opinion.

Yea, Manning has had great WR's his whole career for the most part. Brady plays with guys that wouldn't even be another teams #3 WR. He didn't have a true stud WR til he got Moss. Branch was the closest thing but hes really nothing without Brady. Brady makes every WR look good.

Both great QB's but I'd choose Brady any day. Just cause 1 team looks terrible without thier QB doesn't mean that teams QB is better.

Originally Posted by Northman

Well, no it doesnt and i pointed to why.

Collins has been in that system for 3 weeks. Cassell was in the NE system for years.

Actually yes it does. I agree that Cassell was a better option than Collins, but the mere fact that Cassell was one of the top qb's in lieu of Brady, but isn't too hot elsewhere speaks to the quality of the team surrounding him more so than his skill.

Another point, do you think Kerry Collins would have lost by 30 points if he came in for Brady today? Hell no. NE has a better team than Indy. They have every year for a long time.

You don't get destroyed because you have a backup qb in. you get destroyed because your defense sucks AND you have a backup qb in.

Matt Cassel led the Patriots to an 11-5 record with an average margin of victory of 16.2 points and made the pro bowl. Matt Cassel isn't that good. The Patriots are.

Sorry....but it's the system that makes Brady....well...the Patriots.

Put Brady on say the Chargers.....would he be better than Rivers? I doubt it....


Put Peyton with the Chargers and they have won the SB multiple times.


Like I said....Brady is Badass....but I would take Manning any day.

Originally Posted by Davii

Actually yes it does. I agree that Cassell was a better option than Collins, but the mere fact that Cassell was one of the top qb's in lieu of Brady, but isn't too hot elsewhere speaks to the quality of the team surrounding him more so than his skill.

Another point, do you think Kerry Collins would have lost by 30 points if he came in for Brady today? Hell no. NE has a better team than Indy. They have every year for a long time.

You don't get destroyed because you have a backup qb in. you get destroyed because your defense sucks AND you have a backup qb in.

Matt Cassel led the Patriots to an 11-5 record with an average margin of victory of 16.2 points and made the pro bowl. Matt Cassel isn't that good. The Patriots are.

Houston is constantly improving so even if Peyton had played today i dont think they win that game. The Colts as a team are on the downward spiral while Houston is on the way up. While i agree that NE is better overall than Indy i disagree its a wide margin. Both teams have pro's and con's to them. But do i think that Indy would of looked as bad under Sorgi? No. Being familiar with the system and scheme goes a long way in the NFL and it clearly showed today with Collins not being familiar with the system.

Originally Posted by Dirk

Sorry....but it's the system that makes Brady....well...the Patriots.

Obviously i disagree but opinions differ.

Originally Posted by Northman

Obviously i disagree but opinions differ.

I hear ya bro!


Let me ask you this.....


Who do you think would do better?

Brady with the Colts or Peyton with the Pats?

Manning made himself irreplaceable to that team. he turned into the oc and the qb over the years.

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Originally Posted by BaileyTheBest

that Tom Brady is or ever was in Peyton Manning's league? Without Brady the Pats went 11-5. Without Manning the Colts are the most inept team in the league.

Yes I know Brady has Manning 3-1 in Super Bowls, but using that logic, you would have to say that Terry Bradshaw was twice the QB Elway was. Brady has had the huge benefit of the best head coach in the league and a good defense supporting him. Peyton Manning IS the Colts.

Brady has one of the GOATS coaching him. Manning has never sniffed a coach remotely resembling that caliber. Now I still say Brady is ******* awesome. But Manning is better imo.