Thread: Super Bowl XLVIII: Denver Broncos vs. Seattle Seahawks

Originally Posted by Joel

Whether I'm negative or positive at this point depends on whether we're talking about right now or a year or two from now. One reason I want to win a SB with Manning is because I think the bottom will drop out once he retires and I dread this place when it does. Right now, today, we're in the Super Bowl, which won't be an easy win, but is just ONE win from our first title in 15 years.

So instead of the rebuilding period they were in before Manning they'll be in a rebuilding period when Manning retires, what's the difference?

I don't get it, you're pissed off because the Broncos prematurely ended a process you are dreading anyway?

Originally Posted by VonDoom

This guy pretty much hit it spot on, but I wanted to add that your point is basically moot now - we're IN THE SUPER BOWL. So the move DID work out, right? Why are we trying to second guess something that worked? Manning is on the GOAT short list and we had an opportunity to get him. A lot of other teams wanted him too, but he chose Denver and I've never been worried or upset about that for one second of my life.

I still just can't believe your negativity here, Joel. We manhandled that Patriots team yesterday. We put up more yards than anyone EVER has against a Belichick team. At any point yesterday, were you truly worried we were losing that game? Even at 13-3 at the half, sure we left points on the field, but our defense had played so well that I wasn't that concerned. Then we ate up 7:00 of clock and went up 20-3. It was all over but the shouting at that point. Yet you, either in this thread or the championship game one, spend paragraphs talking about how we moved the ball too quickly in the third quarter and should have grinded more clock. We had a 35 minute TOP and two seven minute drives. If we had turtled up and run every play after a big lead, everyone here would have blasted Fox, including you, I assume. If Manning has an opportunity to score quickly, why wouldn't he take it? At either 23-3 or 27-3 if we had scored a TD there, the Pats would have had to score a ton of points quickly and stop us multiple times. Who cares that it only took two minutes of clock? That's how our offense has worked ALL YEAR.

Okay, first off I said it WAS one of my concerns about the signing. More specifically, I repeatedly said we had 2 or MAYBE 3 years to reach a SB before Manning hit his expiration date, and that this place would meltdown in the ensuing carnage if it didn't. Well, guess what: 2 years and we're in the Super Bowl; that a lot of vindication, and winning it would be the corker.

In addition, I NEVER ONCE said we didn't move the ball well in the third quarter of the AFCCG: We had our longest drive of the year to open the half and finished in the end zone; the next time we got the ball we kept it until 3 minutes into the FOURTH quarter. So where the heck did you get the notion I complained we weren't finishing or sustaining drives in the third: That's when we won the game by doing EXACTLY THAT!

Originally Posted by 7DnBrnc53

I have a few things to say about this garbage:

1. The Broncos were 4-12 in 2010 not because they had a complete lack of talent, but because of McChild. The Fluktriot way was a complete and utter failure. Elway and Fox changed the culture, and that, plus a better D (with Elvis Dumervil's return) and some Tebow Time, led to a four win improvement and a playoff win.

Elway and Fox may have changed the culture, but McDumbass changed the ROSTER, purging many Pro Bowlers and starters to make room for his hand-picked stars. Unless we were going to be the first All Rookie SB team, we were in rebuild mode if only because our new coach DELIBERATELY PUT US THERE. And if Fox and Tebow Time took us to a division title and a playoff win against a good team, they did it with the team McDumbass was only half done rebuilding.

Note: The preceding should not in any way be construed as a defense of our vain, lying, cheating, petulant former coach.

Originally Posted by 7DnBrnc53

2. I take it that you are a Brandon Weeden fan. Cause guess what? Without Manning, he is our QB. They were still going to dump Tebow even without Manning.

Maybe, maybe not; either way, we weren't going to be shopping for the starter of the next decade within two years, let alone IMMEDIATELY.

Originally Posted by 7DnBrnc53

3. This team has a talented replacement in Brock Osweiler with, quite possibly, the strongest arm in the NFL and good mobility for his, or any size. Plus, he is learning at the feet of the GOAT. We are like the Packers in 2007, not the 83 Steelers, who didn't have much success in the years after Bradshaw's retirement, and had an aging team.

This team has a great big question mark in Brock Osweiler, the guy who's thrown a total of 20 passes in the NFL. Have you SEEN Mannings former backups? The great thing about Manning is his work ethic and mind, but it means the backups get about as much first team practice time as they do game time, and when he's down, it shows. Andrew Luck didn't just magically make Indy 9 wins better as a roookie: They had a decent team, but his predecessor was awful.

Originally Posted by 7DnBrnc53

4. Denver isn't mortgaging the future to win now. Champ ($10.75m cap hit) is going to retire after the Broncos beat Seattle in 2 weeks. If not, he's not coming back at that cap figure. There's nearly $11m in savings and, the way contracts are structured, that allows us to re-sign 2 of our key free agents or maybe even 3, depending on the terms. When Peyton retires, either this year or next, that's another $20m in savings. That's $33m off the books in 2 years thanks to just 2 players! $33m is 1/4 of the cap - you can sign A LOT of players to fair contracts with 1/4 of your cap room available.

Unless he wins in two weeks, then rides off into the sunset, we must re-sign most or all our best players while still paying Manning $20 million/year. Restructuring Champ will help a lot, but having a guy like PFM means paying his worth, which in turn means NOT paying many others. I'm just glad we locked in Clady; Osweiler (or whoever) will need him as badly as Manning does.

Originally Posted by 7DnBrnc53

Sure guys like DT and Von are going to cost a lot but it's not like we're suddenly going to stop adding talent or end up in salary cap hell. Is Elway going to suddenly start having bad drafts? I doubt it; he's had 3 pretty good ones so far and I don't see a reason that won't continue. Even if Elway decides to step down we have Russell and Heckert who by all indications appear to be two pretty darn good personnel men themselves.

Until we know how well Miller, Wolfe and Quanterus Smith recover we can't really be sure how well Elways drafts have gone. We could easily loose HALF the first and second round draft picks Elways had; in that case, his drafts, through no fault of his own, haven't been great.

We'll see. All that said, the virtues of the whole thing hinged on whether we could beat Mannings clock to a Super Bowl; we did, and that makes all the difference. If we punch it in, Elway's a freakin' genius who took the NFLs second worst team to a championship in just 3 years, surpassing even Jerry Jones' turnaround with the '89 Cowboys. If not, it's still a pretty good run if we at least reach next years AFCCG. The danger was repeatedly crapping out without reaching any AFCCGs, then watching the team implode (and fanbase) when Manning retired.

Originally Posted by FanInAZ

Joel & Orangehoof, I know that Elway & Fox had the audacity to have difference of opinion with the 2 of you, but we're in the SB.

You 2 believe that the only way to build a winning team is slowly, rather than with big name FA signings.

1) How did the work out for the Texans & Falcons.

Dunno yet; they each had ONE very bad season thanks to many key injuries and FA hits, but we don't know what the next season or two will bring. The nice thing about building a strong core team is having more than 2-3 years to win a SB before the whole thing scatters to the four winds. In Houstons case, the big (or moderate) FA signing was PRECISELY THE PROBLEM; especially two years ago, that was a championship roster at every position EXCEPT SCHAUBS.

I love it; when Elway took over and said he'd build through the draft everyone was all, "Hooray, build through the draft! That's what the Pats, Pack and Steelers do, and look at them. Elway's a genius!" Then he pounced on Manning, dumped Tebow and everyone smoothly pivoted; "Hooray, new sheriff's in town! The draft's a crap shoot for suckers. Elway's a genius!" Meanwhile, ya'll have done a good job of reminding me what Jonestown did with people who refused to drink the Kool Aid.

Originally Posted by FanInAZ

2) The Bengals have also been building into a solid team, but they can't win a playoff game. King believes that they never will until the get a new HC & QB. If that happens, then much of what they've built will be torn down.

Why? Did Gruden tear down the Bucs D? Did Dungy tear down the Colts offense? Only a (Mc)dumbass would do something that stupid.

Originally Posted by FanInAZ

3) Up to that point, many on this site were ripping Elway for being cheep because he didn't even try to sign any of the big name FAs until they signed Manning. Instead, Elway & Fox looked at FAs that were the right fit for what they wanted to do. Manning was such a player & that's why they signed him.

Losers should use their very high draft picks to build a core team based on key HoFers; draft picks like that are (hopefully) rare and painfully earned, so make them count with guys who'll anchor the franchise for a decade and will have an immediate impact REGARDLESS of position, because crap teams don't HAVE anyone good for draft picks to replace. Unfortunately, after 2-3 seasons like that they're not getting top draft picks anymore, and THAT'S when they must go for the top FAs who provide the key pieces still missing. Separate discussion though.

Originally Posted by FanInAZ

4) What's Manning done over the past 2 season that suggest that there's no chance of him playing for another 5+.

Seriously? Manning's gonna play till he's AT LEAST 42?! He's already the second oldest SB starter in history, and it only took arguably the greatest QB since Jim Thorpe to set the record. Manning would tie it with a SB appearance next year; are you seriously suggesting he's going to be a title contender 3 (or MORE) years later?

Originally Posted by I Eat Staples

We're in the Superbowl and you're still going on about this? What in the world?

No, someone pointed out one reason the Manning signing was a big gamble AT THE TIME. No one's going to complain about a big gamble that pays off well.

Originally Posted by Jaded

So instead of the rebuilding period they were in before Manning they'll be in a rebuilding period when Manning retires, what's the difference?

I don't get it, you're pissed off because the Broncos prematurely ended a process you are dreading anyway?

Because I just went through TWO rebuilds in THREE seasons; pardon me if I'm not champing at the bit for a THIRD rebuild just 2-3 years later. Wouldn't it be awfully nice to use some of those choice draft picks that were the only consolation for the 4-12 embarrassment and build a strong core that makes us a contender for the next DECADE? Y'know, instead of just going through a perpetual cycle of building it up for 2-3 years, watching it come crashing down, and starting all over indefinitely? What are we, the Browns? Or maybe just the Lions?

Joel, I have some things to say:

1. You said that Ronald McDonald purged many Pro Bowlers from the roster. Who? Jay Cutler? Brandon Marshall? Peyton Hillis? Tony Scheffler? Give me a break. Marshall has been traded twice now. Cutler has only won one playoff game, and that was against a 7-9 team at home. Hillis is a backup with the Giants, if they even keep him next year. Scheffler was cut by the Lions.

In addition, I also remember how McDaniels purged a lot of crappy players off of our defense when he arrived, like DeWayne Robertson, John Engleberger, Nate Webster, Niko Koutouvides, Marquand Manuel, Marlon McCree, and Dre' Bly.

2. It looks like the Browns are shopping for a new starter after two years of the Brandon Weeden failure. That could have been the Broncos. And, Elway never said that the draft was a crapshoot after signing Manning. Guys drafted the last two years like Trevathan, Jackson, Williams, Ball, and Webster either started or played at least some yesterday.

Originally Posted by Joel

What are we, the Browns? Or maybe just the Lions?

Wow. You really just out-dumbassed yourself with that one. Just stop, Joel. Just stop.

Originally Posted by UnderArmour

Irrelevant. The year is 2014 and skin color in professional sports is nothing of importance in this day and age.

OK....Mr.Serious. I didn't think anyone would take it literally.

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 2h

Trevor Pryce says "Pot Roast" is the reason the Broncos will win this game. He will singlehandedly control the Seahawks running game.

Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol)

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 2h

Trevor Pryce says "Pot Roast" is the reason the Broncos will win this game. He will singlehandedly control the Seahawks running game.

Look for the Seahawks oline to cut block quite often.

Originally Posted by Joel

In addition, I NEVER ONCE said we didn't move the ball well in the third quarter of the AFCCG: We had our longest drive of the year to open the half and finished in the end zone; the next time we got the ball we kept it until 3 minutes into the FOURTH quarter. So where the heck did you get the notion I complained we weren't finishing or sustaining drives in the third: That's when we won the game by doing EXACTLY THAT!

I went back and read the post I was thinking about again, and you were talking about the fourth quarter. My mistake. Though the first line of the below quote says "we hadn't moved the ball well all day either." It was the "all day" part that made me think you were referring to any given drive, not just one from the first half. Still, these two quotes (one from this thread, one from another) that I was responding to were as follows:

Meanwhile, we hadn't moved the ball well all day either; we had lots of big plays, but only TWO led to TDs, with a lot of help from more big plays on the same drives. The rest of the time we'd get a play that got us in FG range, then NEs D stiffened as ours did all game or we made a few consecutive errors, and settled for a FG four times. I'm glad we did, each and every time, even the debatable long FG on 4th and short just before the half; those FGs are the reason we won by 10 instead of losing by 2. The failed 4th and 3 meant a third Denver FG just ONE big play later.

Again I go back to our last score: Denver ball on our 25, up 23-10 with 9:26 left. That should be the drive that finishes NE, as we plod downfield never throwing incompletes or going out of bounds to leave them with no time for anything but a 2:00 drill WHETHER WE SCORE OR NOT! Instead, we DO score, thanks to a 37 yd pass play that puts us in FG range; great, right? Wrong: That "drives" other 4 plays gained just 2 yds, 2 incompletes stopped the clock and we tried a 50 yd FG just 2:26 after we got the ball—then NE got it BACK with 7:00 left, still down just 2 scores.

Your implication seems to be that we only moved the ball due to big plays and if you took those away, we would have done nothing. My contention was simply that a) we lived on big plays all year, so there would be no reason to stop now and b) we had two drives in this game that were the opposite of the "big play" drive.

Originally Posted by Jaded

The Broncos plan is "to win from now on", that plan started long before the Broncos signed Manning...

This is the NFL. NOBODY wins "from now on", not the Steelers, not the Cowboys, not the Patriots, not the 49ers, not the Packers and certainly not the Broncos. All of them have up and down cycles.

Ask the Jets and Vikings if it was worth mortgaging their futures for a couple of years of Brett Favre. Manning was a similar situation. Nobody was sure if he could come back from his neck surgery after sitting out a year. In retrospect, it was a great deal to sign him *because* we got to the Super Bowl but if we had the Favre outcome, everyone but Tebow haters like you would be asking themselves why we went down this road.

Heard talk this morning of the preseason game against Seattle back in august. 2nd preseason game. How seattle played like it was the super bowl. Several Broncos went down in that game with injuries. Cant remember who all got injured in that game. Bailey injured his foot. Wolfe hurt his neck. There were other injuries from that game I cant remember. Anyone remember who else was injured in that game against seattle?

Originally Posted by Dzone

Heard talk this morning of the preseason game against Seattle back in august. 2nd preseason game. How seattle played like it was the super bowl. Several Broncos went down in that game with injuries. Cant remember who all got injured in that game. Bailey injured his foot. Wolfe hurt his neck. There were other injuries from that game I cant remember. Anyone remember who else was injured in that game against seattle?

No I dont. But I do remember that starters vs starters we were tied with them for points I believe....That includes us fumbling once or twice I think too.....The game was close until the backups came in.

Originally Posted by underrated29

No I dont. But I do remember that starters vs starters we were tied with them for points I believe....That includes us fumbling once or twice I think too.....The game was close until the backups came in.

It was 33-7 at the half. Manning played 1 1/2 quarters.

Manning appeared just as ready, with Denver rolling up 209 offensive yards in the first half, mostly against Seattle's starting defense and most of that coming from Manning. He finished 11 of 16 for 163 yards and his TD toss to Welker, but neither Ronnie Hillman (13 carries for 34 yards) nor Montee Ball (six carries, 28 yards) was able to establish much in the run game.

The turnovers led to Seattle making this one a blowout.

Brock threw an INT and fumbled (lost).

Hillman fumbled twice, losing one.

Ball fumbled once (lost).

We also gave up a return-for-touchdown.

Preseason doesn't really mean squat, IMO anyway. Manning was on target though.

Renée Fleming, perhaps the biggest star in American opera, will sing the National Anthem at Super Bowl XLVIII.

Fleming, a soprano, has a long list of international credits and is a regular with the Metropolitan Opera, the country's most respected vocal company.

She is known for her wholesome looks and a voice that is versatile enough to to handle the most difficult works by Mozart, Strauss and Handel. She has enhanced her career and popularity by singing off the classical repertoire with the contemporary music of pop composers such as Leonard Cohen.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/entertainm...y-ren-eacute-e