Thread: Schlereth on O-line: "They need to fire them all and start over"

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

but more realistic. Perhaps you can pull out your book and can tell the coaches on how to teach him better?

If Fox and Gase can't figure it out for themselves though, I'm confident Kubiak and Dennison know how to draft, sign and coach up offensive linemen to be proud of rather than embarrassed.

Lets forget the fact that John Fox has actually COACHED for more years than you have been alive, or the fact that he's coached two different franchises to the Super Bowl. Lets ignore the fact that he's gone to, and won, playoff games every year since being the HC in Denver, and that includes doing it with one of the worst QBs in recent history.

NO.. lets listen the the "book expert" that will COMPLAIN and COMPLAIN about personnel decisions, and forget that this VERY SAME person was crying, moaning, bitching, and screaming that we would have been BETTER OFF STICKING WITH TEBOW than moving forward with Manning. No.. lets listen to his "well read" decisions on how to fix the OL, since Joel is obviously so well "in tune" with what real talent is at the NFL level.

I can't help but find it absoluletly ludicrous that someone that hasn't been closer to the game of football than a junior high sideline has such an overly exaggerated, bloated, inflated, magniloquent, self dilusioned sense of NFL scouting, hiring, and playcalling as Joel does of himself. It amazes me how one can honestly look in the mirror and believe that they are just SO RIGHT, that it's incomprehensible that John Elway isn't ringing his phone this very moment to offer him the very position responsible for FA and Draft signings.... as well as coaching since Joel seems to know "all the answers" as to how to get every player to perform correctly and at peak performances. After all, he did read a book.

Joel, your guessing, fictional, theoretical "fixes" for this team and their needs are no more factual than any armchair QB screaming at the tv " I would have called a different pass play that would have gone for the TD!" They certainly sound good, but has the 100% benefit of never having the opportunity to be scrutinized based on actual results. Theories and complaints. Guesses and criticisms. Easy to do from behind your book.

Everyone has their opinion as to "what needs to be done" but I find it absurd when posters go the degree of which you have, and try to degrade, diminish, and lessen the knowlege that a SUCCESSFUL coach (one that has ACTUALLY coached at the highest level) and attempts to poster themselves as "smarter." It's weak, it's stupid, and irrefutably laughable. I find it to be a joke, and although you haven't realized it yet, you have become a CLOWN for which posters read merely for the musing.

No different than as if walking by the man standing on his soap-box on the corner of Times Square, listening to them rant and rave on the brain-scanners that are reading our thoughts and powering the mothership. Fun to listen to for a while. Entertaining as you shake your head with your friends while the tirades continue for hours and hours... over and over....hearing him believe his actual theories and guesses to be facts that we just can't see.

But does Manning feel his offensive line is good enough?

"Certainly. It's not easy forming chemistry in just two weeks in the middle of the season," he said. "What's that, just a handful of practices they've had together?"

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...fensive-issues

Originally Posted by Joel

Franklin's been amazingly pissy all year for a guy who's played WORSE in EACH of his four seasons so far. He fired off an angry tweet last spring when they told him he was moving to G, groused on Denver radio about Incognitos tryout last week, and now he's "defiant" in this weeks locker room interviews? Instead of complaining about a move to less lucrative position in a contract year, he better get focused on playing SOME position well enough to GET another contract—from ANYONE. If he were as "defiant" with DTs and DEs, he might not need to be with reporters.

Amen.

Fox actually hasn't coached longer than I've been alive, is just one of THREE head coaches to ride Manning to a SB, and needed 3 OTs wins just to reach the PLAYOFFS in his other SB season, plus a 4th to reach the NFCCG. But, OK, fine, he's right and I'm wrong: Chris Clark actually IS "the best backup OT in the league" rather than a useless lump—even though the head coach who called him the best when he was giving strip-sacks in game after game last year BENCHED him this year.

Why is someone so directly and personally connected with the NFL sitting here arguing with us lowly readers anyway: Shouldn't you be getting ready for the game you're playing Sunday?

(the previous comment was directed at the particular individual whose comment intended to slander,disrespect or offend me)

I truly LOVE that, btw; does it work in biker bars? Like, if you go up to a Hells Angel and say, "Your mom's a whore—no offense" do they just shrug it off and buy you a beer?

Also, let's keep in mind we're having this "you don't know more than the guys on the field" debate in a thread about an ALL PRO GUARD WITH A FIST FULL OF SB RINGS SAYING WE SHOULD FIRE OUR WHOLE LINE AND REBOOT. Feel free to go tell Schlereth he doesn't know a thing about playing guard, Rav; give him the benefit of your vast and frequently referenced yet never specified experience. Sorry I graduated HS two years early; a lot of folks considered that a GOOD thing, but I understand you consider it failure (just not WHY.) Look, there are two (and ONLY two) really simple options here:

1) Franklin and Clark have exceptional physical ability, but Fox, Gase and their staff can't/won't teach them the skills, concentration and execution to take advantage of that.

2) Franklin and Clark are slow clumsy oafs and Fox, Gase and their staff were crazy to think they'd be excellent starters at ONE position, much less TWO, and calling Clark the NFLs best backup OT was lunacy.

Either way, our coaches dropped the ball: The SOLE debate is WHY, not IF.

Mark Schlereth as a former Bronco I don't really see any reason to say "They need to fire them all and start over". I get it if you're going for ratings purposes and trying to get peoples attention, sure. But it literally does nothing for the team, or players to hear that. That's why I'm confused why Mark Schlereth, a former Bronco would say that about a team (I like to think is rooting to win the SB) that he used to play on.

Originally Posted by Joel

Also, let's keep in mind we're having this "you don't know more than the guys on the field" debate in a thread about an ALL PRO GUARD WITH A FIST FULL OF SB RINGS SAYING WE SHOULD FIRE OUR WHOLE LINE AND REBOOT. Feel free to go tell Schlereth he doesn't know a thing about playing guard, Rav; give him the benefit of your vast and frequently referenced yet never specified experience. Sorry I graduated HS two years early; a lot of folks considered that a GOOD thing, but I understand you consider it failure (just not WHY.) Look, there are two (and ONLY two) really simple options here:

1) Franklin and Clark have exceptional physical ability, but Fox, Gase and their staff can't/won't teach them the skills, concentration and execution to take advantage of that.

2) Franklin and Clark are slow clumsy oafs and Fox, Gase and their staff were crazy to think they'd be excellent starters at ONE position, much less TWO, and calling Clark the NFLs best backup OT was lunacy.

Either way, our coaches dropped the ball: The SOLE debate is WHY, not IF.

Surely there is some kind of band aid we can put together this season. Hell, nothing has changed from last year, if anything we some how upgraded, although hard to see it that way now, but we did get Clady back. I just don't get how an O-line can just implode like this half way through a season when you only had 1 loss. I don't think teams have suddenly found the blue print to beating our O-line to get to Peyton. I think most of it's mental, and if we can do some patch work and set goals for this O-line that is achievable, we can get some success again. What I mean by setting goals, maybe, I don't know, give Peyton 4 seconds with the ball instead of 2 1/2? Maybe 1 penalty on the O-line instead of 3? Baby steps.

I thought our resident expert on all things football was taking a "cooling off period."

Originally Posted by VonDoom

I'll probably regret asking, but what exactly would you have done in the offseason? I assume you would have kept Clady and Vasquez. Anyone else? Because if we were going to spend FA dollars on a guard, and draft one in the first or second, what WOULDN'T we have this year? There's opportunity cost associated with your master plan. We could have paid a FA guard 3 years, 15 million and then not have Sanders. We could have drafted Su'a-Filo or someone of that ilk but then not had Roby. Our line would probably be better, but then wouldn't you complain about another area where we were weaker than last year?

We wouldn't have TJ Ward. Well, so what?

If the OL could get Peyton Manning 3-4 seconds to throw every time with these weapons, it wouldn't much matter how many points the defense gave up. There would be no defense in the NFL, including the Seahawks that could stop the Broncos offense.

So their secondary wouldn't have the guy who failed to cover Gronkowski. I think we could all live with that. Instead they'd have a starting C and a starting RT who didn't suck.

So the Broncos can suck at a position just as long as they suck at a position you approve of?

Also, if Clark has been in this system for years and struggles this season, what makes people think an outsider wouldn't have?

Originally Posted by tripp

Surely there is some kind of band aid we can put together this season. Hell, nothing has changed from last year, if anything we some how upgraded, although hard to see it that way now, but we did get Clady back. I just don't get how an O-line can just implode like this half way through a season when you only had 1 loss. I don't think teams have suddenly found the blue print to beating our O-line to get to Peyton. I think most of it's mental, and if we can do some patch work and set goals for this O-line that is achievable, we can get some success again. What I mean by setting goals, maybe, I don't know, give Peyton 4 seconds with the ball instead of 2 1/2? Maybe 1 penalty on the O-line instead of 3? Baby steps.

Did you not see the "band-aids" the last 5 games? Let's review.

They started the season with Chris Clark at RT, Manny Ramirez moved from G to C, and Orlando Franklin from RT to LG. Then after the first 3 games, they inserted rookie FA Paul Cornick as an extra blocker. Then they benched Clark and inserted Cornick. That lasted 3 games. Then just before the Patriots game they benched Cornick and moved Ramirez back to G, put Will Montgomery at C, and moved Vasquez to RT.

Band-aid, band-aid, band-aid, band-aid. I would say after all this that they are fresh out of band-aids, wouldn't you?

And after all these moves, they were just crushed by a 3-6 team and are now facing the best DL in football and the #3 pass defense. Then it's off to face the Chiefs who are even better on defense.

Originally Posted by Jaded

So the Broncos can suck at a position just as long as they suck at a position you approve of?

Also, if Clark has been in this system for years struggles this season, what makes people think an outsider wouldn't have?

Approve of? Are you insane?

What is the Broncos biggest asset? Peyton Manning. How can they win the SB with Peyton? Give him time to throw.

He's a statue. He was never fast and now he's the slowest guy in the NFL. He's not going to elude the rush. They have to keep him upright.

What is more important than that? Nothing, that's what. As we are now seeing. Peyton flat SUCKS if you let DL get in his face in 2 seconds. He's thrown 6 picks in the last 3 games. He hasn't done that in 10 seasons!

And it's not like they don't have other S's. How much of an impact has TJ Ward made this season? Not much.

It's not even close.

As for Chris Clark, he was a career backup. It was a gamble to think he could be a starting RT. They certainly needed to bring someone in who could do that job. But, they didn't. They rolled the dice and lost. And it screwed up their entire season.

Now, at best, they are facing a trip to New England in the playoffs in January. And we all know what happens then.

So Cugel is the rude version of Joel?