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Thread: Assassin's CPF Natty Night 2 tier mock/off-season scenario

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27 View Post
    I said draft Devin White because we need an ILB because he can fill any voids left by Von. Complimentary football. People wanna infer something else? Go ahead. Pretty boring around here apparently that we need to make up fake arguments.
    Quote Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27 View Post
    Gotta have that leader in the middle.

    As good as Von is as a pass rusher, he is not a great LB overall when considering the other responsibilities.

    You said he wasn't a great LB because he didn't stop the run. You need multiple players to stop the run. No one's making up a fake argument. Even if Von was the best run stuffer in the game we'd still need a ILB to do that. Also, we have another OLB who is good against the run in Chubb. It doesn't mean we don't need an ILB to do that.

    Or, in short - you started off almost saying we need an ILB to run stuff because Von is deficient and then switched to saying well we still need an ILB to do that. Von isn't deficient, and we need an ILB to run stuff (also and more importantly to cover) but not because of Von's being deficient.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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    48 tackles. 29 solo. You are a stat guy. Until it doesn't fit your opinion and then you aren't. 48 tackles is not very good for an elite LB with no weaknesses.

    Again...boredom

  3. #33

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    I form my opinions on good analysis. You don’t have to admit you had a bad take. I love you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27 View Post
    48 tackles. 29 solo. You are a stat guy. Until it doesn't fit your opinion and then you aren't. 48 tackles is not very good for an elite LB with no weaknesses.

    Again...boredom
    See, I was going to let this go, but you keep wanting to say I'm selective and I'm not. YOU can pull up PFF grades and find that he's considered elite at run stopping. As an ILB he's not ever going to hit 120 tackle, because that's not his job. Nor is it the job of an ILB who is a run stopper, to pull up a bunch of sacks, albeit some years you do see that via scheme (one of the ILB backers for the chiefs had like 8-10 a few years ago). You can't pull up a raw data and draw that conclusion without more context. That number is meaningless.

    That's why the criticism you label me with doesn't fit. You have to have the context, or in this case, compare him apples to apples.

    This is from last season, not the one ongoing via the playoffs:
    PFF Grade: 95.0

    Elite Stat: Miller led all edge defenders in total pressures in 2017, recording 83 over 447 pass-rush snaps.

    With the Denver Broncos’ season sinking into misery as it wore on, it feels like the league let Von Miller slip out of the limelight, and he received significantly less press this season for the destructive force he continued to be despite never seeing his performances slip. Miller ended the season leading all edge defenders with 83 total pressures and the second-best pass-rush productivity score. Miller has always been more than just a pass-rusher though, and his 31 run stops are the second-best mark among all edge defenders, trailing only Khalil Mack. Miller’s three missed tackles in the run game were also half the number that Mack missed over the year.


    See how they confine him to edge rushes, and not, for instance, ILBs? By comparing him to pass rushers who will have some run stopping responsibilities, it makes sense. Comparing him to an ILB who has a job that often consists of run stopping, does not. So you have to have the context, and you can't just drop a raw stat like tackles to do it.

    Stats are useful, but you have to use them right. It's why teams might pay a guy in FA a ton of money for one big sack total year and then are stumped when he doesn't get it done for them. When, in reality, the stat the correlates to sacks in the future the most is QB pressures. It ironically, and strangely, correlates better to sacks than sacks correlates to sacks. Mostly because if you consistently get there, you're going to get your sacks. In contrast, one year, you might just play against less mobile QB,s so even though you get there less, you have better opportunities in that given year, ergo, the correlation means less overall.

    I love you. You're my guy. But you can't just say I cherry pick to suit my conclusions. Because I don't. I actually argue that Von Miller is a better OLB than Derrick Thomas because their pass rush abilities are close, Thomas might get the edge on that, but as a run stopper Von Miller is one of the best pass rushers to do it. And he can cover a little, too.

    I don't just care about being right. I care about the Denver Broncos.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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    My assessment of Miller vbased on the eye test, his responsibilities at olb, and the PFF analysis over the past nine years that he's been in the league. Early in his career when we were still in the 4-3 it wasn't even close. It was so far to Von's favor that they would comment on it every year. Just how ridiculous it was. As you can see from what kinger just posted it's still that way for him. He may not have quite the numbers that Mack did but he missed fewer tackles which evens it out in my book. So maybe it's just Burbage at this point. I'd like to say that you two both provide some of the best perspective on this board. Perhaps it's just weighing a little too heavily on his tackle total when 3-4 outside linebackers who are tasked with being primarily pass-rushers don't typically put up great tackle numbers.
    Last edited by Jsteve01; 01-12-2019 at 09:37 PM.

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    And I think we all agree that we need our next Al Wilson. Or hell I'd settle for the next Danny trevathan without the injury concerns.

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    Looks like Risner made himself some $ this week. Would be nice to get him in round 2. Seems he may sneak into day 1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27 View Post
    Looks like Risner made himself some $ this week. Would be nice to get him in round 2. Seems he may sneak into day 1.
    Heard that as well, he would be good for sure in Rd 2....he is a good prospect....
    Denver's 2024 George Paton Draft/FA plan

    Draft
    RD1- TE Brock Bowers, GA
    RD3- QB Spencer Rattler, SC
    RD4- CB Josh Newton, TCU
    RD5- S Reggie Pearson, OK
    RD5- C Michael Jurgens, Wake Forest
    RD6- K Jonah Dalmas, Boise St

    FA
    1. With what money

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    Back when this thread was started, Dillard in the 4th round might have been reasonable but, supposedly, he killed it at the Senior Bowl and is now considered the first or second-best pure LT in the draft and he has risen to somewhere between 15-30 in most current mocks. I'm also noticing Jonah Williams of Alabama falling slightly in all the rush to get defensive talent (I don't think it is anti-Williams, he's still the best consensus OT in the draft) but recent mocks have him falling into Denver's territory. If they aren't committed to a QB at 10, I'd have Williams at the top of my list - even above guys like White and Oliver. We need a better OL so our QB, whoever he is, doesn't get killed on a regular basis.
    Last edited by OrangeHoof; 02-05-2019 at 02:19 PM.
    I miss the old Mile High Stadium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jsteve01 View Post
    And I think we all agree that we need our next Al Wilson. Or hell I'd settle for the next Danny trevathan without the injury concerns.
    Devin White would look fantastic in orange and blue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeHoof View Post
    Back when this thread was started, Dillard in the 4th round might have been reasonable but, supposedly, he killed it at the Senior Bowl and is now considered the first or second-best pure LT in the draft and he has risen to somewhere between 15-30 in most current mocks. I'm also noticing Jonathan Williams of Alabama falling slightly in all the rush to get defensive talent (I don't think it is anti-Williams, he's still the best consensus OT in the draft) but recent mocks have him falling into Denver's territory. If they aren't committed to a QB at 10, I'd have Williams at the top of my list - even above guys like White and Oliver. We need a better OL so our QB, whoever he is, doesn't get killed on a regular basis.
    Well...the nice thing about Munchak is he can take mid round talent and make it great, so...I would prefer the LB or CB in the first and then see what OL talent is available later. Fortunately, there is some good OL depth this year.

    Plus, Leary isn't going anywhere since it's cheaper to keep him for another year and neither is McGovern or Bolles. If they decide to pay a ton to keep Paradis, then it's really only one line spot that needs filled. So...not quite as pressing of a need for a 1st rounder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
    Well...the nice thing about Munchak is he can take mid round talent and make it great, so...I would prefer the LB or CB in the first and then see what OL talent is available later. Fortunately, there is some good OL depth this year.

    Plus, Leary isn't going anywhere since it's cheaper to keep him for another year and neither is McGovern or Bolles. If they decide to pay a ton to keep Paradis, then it's really only one line spot that needs filled. So...not quite as pressing of a need for a 1st rounder.
    I'm in this boat as well. I think we need to address RT and Guard but not in Rd 1. I think Paradis will leave in FA, Moving McGovern to center and I think they keep Turner at Guard and have Leary as the other Guard and Bolles at LT. So we need a RT and then some solid Guard depth. Our OL wasn't a Achilles heel last year, they can play better for sure....but I think Munchak can help the OL alot.
    Denver's 2024 George Paton Draft/FA plan

    Draft
    RD1- TE Brock Bowers, GA
    RD3- QB Spencer Rattler, SC
    RD4- CB Josh Newton, TCU
    RD5- S Reggie Pearson, OK
    RD5- C Michael Jurgens, Wake Forest
    RD6- K Jonah Dalmas, Boise St

    FA
    1. With what money

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeHoof View Post
    Back when this thread was started, Dillard in the 4th round might have been reasonable but, supposedly, he killed it at the Senior Bowl and is now considered the first or second-best pure LT in the draft and he has risen to somewhere between 15-30 in most current mocks. I'm also noticing Jonah Williams of Alabama falling slightly in all the rush to get defensive talent (I don't think it is anti-Williams, he's still the best consensus OT in the draft) but recent mocks have him falling into Denver's territory. If they aren't committed to a QB at 10, I'd have Williams at the top of my list - even above guys like White and Oliver. We need a better OL so our QB, whoever he is, doesn't get killed on a regular basis.
    Jawan Taylor is the Best Tackle in this class right now and it isn't close.

    Jawan taylor
    Cody ford
    Greg Little
    Jonah Williams

    will probably go in rd. 1, then Dillard, Risner and Pipkins will probably go in Rd 2 after there senior Bowl and shrine showing respectively.....However Cody Ford And Jonah Williams should probably be guards at the next level, and Greg little has some work ethic concerns...
    Last edited by Elevation inc; 02-05-2019 at 03:58 PM.
    Denver's 2024 George Paton Draft/FA plan

    Draft
    RD1- TE Brock Bowers, GA
    RD3- QB Spencer Rattler, SC
    RD4- CB Josh Newton, TCU
    RD5- S Reggie Pearson, OK
    RD5- C Michael Jurgens, Wake Forest
    RD6- K Jonah Dalmas, Boise St

    FA
    1. With what money

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    Taylor is said to be the best RT along with Little. Some say we should take an LT and shift Bolles to RT.
    I miss the old Mile High Stadium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeHoof View Post
    Taylor is said to be the best RT along with Little. Some say we should take an LT and shift Bolles to RT.
    I'm willing to give Munchak and Kuper a year to see what they can do with him. If it isn't any better, then LT will definitely be a priority.

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