Thread: Halladay a Philly

Halladay going to the Phillies
Cliff Lee going to Seattle
Toronto presumably get a bucket of balls. ...Its a nice bucket though.

Not sure which Mariners prospects are officially involved, but I've heard Gillies (fourth outfielder) and Aumont, our first-rounder from a few years ago. If we get Lee (even for a year) for that, LOL. Wow.

Originally Posted by Requiem

Not sure which Mariners prospects are officially involved, but I've heard Gillies (fourth outfielder) and Aumont, our first-rounder from a few years ago. If we get Lee (even for a year) for that, LOL. Wow.

You're also giving up Juan Ramirez.

So essentially, you are giving up 2 of your top pitching prospects and a decent outfielder for a one year rental that will get you draft picks when he leaves ofther next season.

The positive of it all is you did get a Cy young pitcher without having to give up Morrow, Saunders or Triunfel.

I call it a wash.

and the Jays give up the best pitcher in baseball for 3 prospects... They also have to pay 6 million of Halladay's contract.

******* nuts

I guess I don't see it as that big of a deal; they gave up a really good and borderline great pitcher to get a great pitcher. Had they found a way to keep Lee and get Holladay it'd be a much better acquisition.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

You're also giving up Juan Ramirez.

So essentially, you are giving up 2 of your top pitching prospects and a decent outfielder for a one year rental that will get you draft picks when he leaves ofther next season.

The positive of it all is you did get a Cy young pitcher without having to give up Morrow, Saunders or Triunfel.

I call it a wash.

A deaf outfielder, a pitcher with a degenerative hip condition (Aumont) and Ramirez, probably our best farm (closer type guy IMHO, Soriano comparisons) for Lee is a hell of a deal. IMHO. Rental or not.

As a Canadian I just shake my head at the fall of the Jays. It has been a long time since the glory years

Originally Posted by King87

I guess I don't see it as that big of a deal; they gave up a really good and borderline great pitcher to get a great pitcher. Had they found a way to keep Lee and get Holladay it'd be a much better acquisition.

They couldnt afford to keep both. it was going to take 3 teams to get this deal done so they had to give up something. They have depth in the rotation, so it was the best overall. PLUS...Lee was a lefty and they have too many lefties in the rotation already.

Requiem underestimates the value of the players Philly is getting in return. Will any of them ever be great? Probably not, but while the M's got Lee without giving up their best farm hands...they still gave up too much potential talent for a one year player.

They're trying to convince Felix that he's got a chance to win something in the Northwest so they can extend him. I would line the guys Philly got up in front of a firing squad if it would help convince Felix to sign that extension.

The value of winning pennants, keeping Cy Young level pitchers, convincing all-star hitters to come to the Northwest...these are all considerations in a Cliff Lee deal. And as a fan, I'd rather see my team compete for a pennant than save fragile arms for some future deal or rotation spot...that never gets here because they blow their arms out. (See: Ryan Anderson, Gil Meche, Heaverlo, Falkenborg, Madritsch, Nageotte, Blackley, Livingston, et al).

I love Gillies, but he's an Eric Young sort of CFer. If his power comes around he'll be great, and if not, he'll give you great D and speed on the base paths with a good leadoff OBP.

JCR is one of those guys with talent who just hasn't improved like you'd like. Pitchers jump plateaus rather than improving in a smooth arc, so if he finds a reliable breaking ball he could take off and be great, but right now I do see him as Soriano or JJ Putz (pre-splitter). He's still a baby - he's got time to find it. He's blowing through options now though. If he doesn't find it in the next 2 years he's probably gonna be a reliever and have to find it from the pen in the bigs. If he finds it, he's a #3ish pitcher. The odds against are just longer than you'd like.

And if Aumont has that hip condition that won't let him start, as is rumored, then giving away two relievers and a good 4th OF is a fine price for a TOR pitcher, especially since - barring disaster *knocks on wood* - Cliff Lee will give back 2 draft picks in FA even if he pitches for us all year.

So we traded 3 prospects, get 2 back, and get a year of Cliff Lee? It's not too much. If Felix signs because we're putting a team on the field that might be worth playing for, it's a ridiculous underpayment.

We'll see what the rest of the offseason brings. But minor leaguers exist to restock the big club, whether with their own talent or what they can bring in trade. Pineda and Robles are two better pitchers than JCR that we kept, and we still have Morrow, and there are other interesting pitchers in the minors as well (like Nick Hill). We have arms with less velocity but just as much potential as either Ramirez or Aumont. Josh Fields is practically a duplicate of Aumont's stuff, and Varvaro is another uneven pen arm with mid-90s velocity. They're all shots at future stars.

I don't mind betting the horses we have and trying for a pennant this year. If the guys we sent turn into stars? Then hopefully Cliff Lee is a better return than Healthcliff Slocumb was for Lowe and Varitek.

I like the chances of it working out in the Mariners' favor, I guess.

~G