Thread: Short yardage, big problem

Originally Posted by Requiem

Moreno doesn't go down the first time he is touched. Stop exaggerating.

He does seem to trip over the white line every now and again. He does run hard, but it seems that maybe how hard he attempts to run throws his balance out of whack a bit.

Originally Posted by Mike

He does seem to trip over the white line every now and again. He does run hard, but it seems that maybe how hard he attempts to run throws his balance out of whack a bit.

I think it has to do with him learning to be patient and wait for the holes to open in front of him. Hes so anxious, hes learning too.

Originally Posted by Requiem

"I'm not worried about our backs, they have converted this year, when you don't stop the penetration that killed us yesterday in everyone of those situations you could give the ball to Frank O'Harris and he wouldn't even get a yard."

-- My transcription from the interview today.

Who is Frank O'Harris? I don't remember any Irish running back having a lot of success in the league!

Originally Posted by Requiem

Moreno doesn't go down the first time he is touched. Stop exaggerating.

Calling it like I see it, the kid has been brought down by way too many arm tackles and not just in short yardage situations.

Req, Moreno is the better starting back BUT he isn't getting it done in short yardage situations. Hillis may fail too but lets give him a chance before saying he can't do it.

Originally Posted by SOCALORADO.

I think it has to do with him learning to be patient and wait for the holes to open in front of him. Hes so anxious, hes learning too.

He is getting more carries than any of our other backs, he is getting his chance to learn.

This whole thing about 3rd/4th and short has been a question that has bothered me most of this season. It drove me to distraction several times when we went up the gut over and over with little to show for it. Have also questioned why Hillis has not gotten opportunities to do something in that situation.

I came across this post at MHR talking about this very thing and the info was quite interesting. I ended up having a better understanding of why MCD was making the play calls he was. What I don't understand about the calls is why he tries to "force" the man on man blocking when the guys we have really aren't right for it. On occasion I can understand it would take the defense off guard so to speak. but to use it like they did in the Colts game just makes me shake my head. They were getting blow off the line over and over again.

The article is a good read and there is a post in the comments section (highlighted in green) that is good enough to stand on its own.

Why the Broncos keep running between the tackles on 3rd & 4th and short, since that type of play has proven to be markedly unsuccessful. This started me wondering how often McDaniels has called a between the tackles run on 3rd or 4th and short. So, I went to nfl.com, pulled up the Game Book for each of our 13 games and looked at the play-by-play to see how often the Broncos have found themselves in 3rd/4th and short and what play was called. The results might surprise you.

For the sake of this discussion, I have defined "Short Yardage" as 1 or 2 yards to go. Many teams, the Broncos included tend to pass as often as they run in 3 or 4 yard situations.

According the stats posted on the Broncos page at nfl.com, the Broncos have had 185 3rd and 4th down conversion attempts, and have converted 66 (or 36%) of the time. Of those 185 attempts, 40 (or 22%) fall in the short yardage category as defined above. Here are some interesting stats about those 40 attempts:

1)12 (30%) of the 40 attempts were passes.
2)22 (55%) of them were runs.
3)6 (15%) had penalties called on them.
4)Denver converted 21 (53%) of the 40 attempts.
5)6 of the 12 pass attempts (50%) were converted.
6)14 of the 22 run attempts (64%) were converted.
7)1 defensive penalty gave Denver a first down.
8)5 offensive penalties forced the Broncos into 3rd or 4th and long.

Of the 12 Pass Attempts:

1)8 went short right; 3 resulted in 1st downs.
2)1 went short over the middle, and not only was converted but resulted in a TD.
3)3 went short left; 2 resulted in 1st downs.

Of the 22 Run Attempts:

1)1 went around the right end and resulted in a first down.
2)4 went to the right tackle; 3 resulted in first downs and 1 of those resulted in a TD.
3)4 went to the right guard; 3 resulted in first downs.
4)6 went up the middle; 2 resulted in first downs.
5)3 went to the left guard; 2 resulted in first downs.
6)2 went to the left tackle; both resulted in first downs.
7)2 went around the left end; 1 resulted in a first down.

So, of the 22 runs attempted on 3rd or 4th and short, 19 were between the tackles, and 12 (or 63%) resulted in first downs.

There is a lot more to the article here

Originally Posted by broncofaninfla

He is getting more carries than any of our other backs, he is getting his chance to learn.

I know, I know. I just think its a rookie thing. He wants so bad to impress, and he isnt patient. Hes young. But hes freaking good. i understand your point of view though in regards to Hillis. The whole things a scooby doo mystery.

thoughts inspired by this thread:

- the subtext reads: it doesn't matter who the coach is, the fans will always side with the players. it's always the scheme's fault, never the player's fault (unless the player is a thug, then it's always his fault).

- hillis is so loved not because he contributes daily and has actually made significant plays to win games, but because he's a tough SOB who can drag players.

- the only people in today's NFL who like fullbacks are the fans who use terms like "slobberknocker" and "tough SOB."

- if hillis wasn't white, would he be so loved?

- i really want hillis to play and get chances on short yardage situations because after he fails all his fanboys can end this stupid debate.

Originally Posted by rationalfan

- i really want hillis to play and get chances on short yardage situations because after he fails all his fanboys can end this stupid debate.

And if he succeeds?

He won't and he probably won't be given an opportunity. The same people hanging on Hillis jock are the same ones who took a whiz in the ears of some of our teams best players for character concerns and a variety of other reasons. It is just baffling.

Originally Posted by Buff

And if he succeeds?

good for him and the team. then let the debate about playing time start. but a few pedestrian carries against a tired chiefs defense and (truly) average games against average or poor defenses (browns, falcons, etc.) last season don't convince me hillis is worthy of the praise people throw at him.

also, i wonder why this bit of logic hasn't crept into the hillis debate: if shanahan's zone blocking scheme was renowned for allowing average running backs to look great, why don't people assume hillis was simply the latest back to benefit from a great system? remember, pittman looked good last year too. this year, he played in the usfl or whatever the hell that league is called.

Originally Posted by Requiem

He won't and he probably won't be given an opportunity. The same people hanging on Hillis jock are the same ones who took a whiz in the ears of some of our teams best players for character concerns and a variety of other reasons. It is just baffling.

What is baffling to me is why you and others have taken up this anti-Hillis campaign based solely on the fact that you are annoyed by the people who want Hillis to play a larger role in the offense.

Guy was a solid player for us last year. I can't blame people for wanting to see him get more reps to see if last year was a fluke or not.

Originally Posted by Requiem

He won't and he probably won't be given an opportunity. The same people hanging on Hillis jock are the same ones who took a whiz in the ears of some of our teams best players for character concerns and a variety of other reasons. It is just baffling.

no doubt. you need to post more of your sense on this board. must be the dakota boy thing. Dakota country all the way.

Originally Posted by Buff

What is baffling to me is why you and others have taken up this anti-Hillis campaign based solely on the fact that you are annoyed by the people who want Hillis to play a larger role in the offense.

Guy was a solid player for us last year. I can't blame people for wanting to see him get more reps to see if last year was a fluke or not.

Thats me 100%. I just think its silly people want him to play when our starters are healthy. I will root for him every time he gets it though.

Originally Posted by claymore

Thats me 100%. I just think its silly people want him to play when our starters are healthy. I will root for him every time he gets it though.

I do not know OF anyone that is stating he should be the starter..

most folks are saying that he should see action in certain areas.. when we need a change of pace, spell winded RB's, short yardage and some passes..

allow him to pound the ball a few times and then the Defense is more likely to be tired..

a few folks have been on Moreno's jock from day one and some cases since he was a dream in his daddies eyes.

splitting the load will keep starters from wearing down..

now if Bucky has the hot hand ride him till he needs to rest same form Moreno.. but it has been a rare day that that has happened.. in fact many games the run game has been in effective.. and we kept trying to get yards with the lightweights..