Thread: McDaniels not big believer in franchise label

Always fun to look back.

Originally Posted by Lonestar

By Lindsay H. Jones
The Denver Post
Po
sted: 12/13/2009 01:00:00 AM MST


Here in the Rocky Mountains, we like to think we know a thing or two about The Franchise Quarterback.

We know when we've got one, and we'll spend the better part of a decade looking for another. And just when we think we've found one, he's gone, and we all wonder what went wrong.

From John Elway to Brian Griese to Jake Plummer to Jay Cutler to Kyle Orton, the topic of the franchise quarterback is a touchy one for Broncos fans.

Meanwhile, across the line today in Indianapolis, Denver faces Peyton Manning, the very definition of a Franchise Quarterback.

"Peyton Manning is the poster boy for franchise quarterbacks," Broncos quarterback Chris Simms said. "It's a great thing if you get drafted there and it works."

Manning was the Colts' No. 1 overall draft pick in 1998 and he has played in every game for the Colts since. He's thrown for more than 49,000 yards, been named to nine Pro Bowls, won three NFL MVP awards and was the Super Bowl MVP.

All the accolades and superlatives aside, Manning and the Colts illustrate the ideal way to build a franchise around a star quarterback, something most organizations try, and few do.

The Colts finished the 1997 season 3-13, and new general manager Bill Polian and coach Jim Mora Sr. took Manning with the No. 1 overall pick. By 1999, the Colts were 13-3 and back in the playoffs, and they've been the model of consistency ever since.

It was what former Broncos coach Mike Shanahan at one point envisioned doing around Cutler.

But here's a major difference as to why Polian's strategy has worked so well: Not only has Manning panned out, so have many of the players Indianapolis drafted to play around him: first-rounders such as running back Edgerrin James (1999), receiver Reggie Wayne (2001), defensive end Dwight Freeney (2002), tight end Dallas Clark (2003), running back Joseph Addai (2006) and receiver Anthony Gonzalez (2007), as well as second-round safety Bob Sanders

Quarterbacks
View slide show of Broncos QB Kyle Orton.
View slide show of Colts QB Peyton Manning.
(2004).

During that same span, only linebackers Al Wilson (1999) and D.J. Williams (2004) have been long-term bona fide star players for the Broncos. The Broncos used one first-round draft pick on a quarterback this decade, Cutler, and first-year coach Josh McDaniels — though never in exact terms — clearly didn't deem him to be a franchise quarterback.

Perhaps that is because McDaniels isn't as fully sold on the notion of a "Franchise Quarterback" as other coaches.

"I don't know what the definition of that is, because there are a lot of quarterbacks who have had great success in this league that, I don't how you define them as franchise quarterbacks," McDaniels said. "What's a guy who is not a franchise quarterback? I don't know. I just want our guy to win."
The question remains, though, of how far a team can go without an elite quarterback. Of the past 10 Super Bowl champions, eight were quarterbacked by players who fit the "franchise" mold: Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger (twice), New England's Tom Brady (three times), Manning for the Colts and his brother Eli for the Giants, and Kurt Warner for the Rams.

"If you have one, you are probably going to be making the playoffs," said NFL Network analyst Steve Mariucci, a former Lions and 49ers coach. "When you look at the teams that are going to be there, by and large, they've got guys that are going to the Pro Bowl or have been there before."

For the record, Mariucci includes Orton in a group of what he calls "very good" quarterbacks, a group that also includes guys such as Cutler in Chicago, Dallas' Tony Romo, Green Bay's Aaron Rodgers and San Diego's Philip Rivers.

But can Orton be a franchise quarterback in Denver? This is the final year of his contract, and he will be a restricted free agent after the season. How the Broncos choose to handle him after that will be telling. The Broncos will be able to match any other offer Orton receives this offseason, should he make it to the open market next spring without having signed a new contract.

"That's all on the franchise. That's all on the organization," Orton said. "That's probably the only way you can decide that, is if the organization thinks you're one, then you're one."

Originally Posted by rcsodak

Always fun to look back.

Look back at what? A reminder of how far over his head McDaniels was? How inept he was? How he led the Broncos to the worst stretch in franchise history?

Wow, if that's your idea of fun, I would hate to see what you consider a bad time...

Originally Posted by Northman

Meh, i dont agree with McDaniels here although it has been proven you can win with an average QB so as long as you have the right talent and chemistry around him. However, McD should look no further than his former team and their star QB who has 3 rings to his name. I highly doubt those get accomplished with O'Connell or Cassell starting.

Sure it's possible but doesn't happen very often that a team wins a championship with a journeyman quarterback. The last team to do it was the Buccaneers.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

Sure it's possible but doesn't happen very often that a team wins a championship with a journeyman quarterback. The last team to do it was the Buccaneers.

You pretty much need a franchise quarterback to win it all. All you got to do is look at history. To win without one, takes a dominating defense and a good running game. Here is hoping Tebow lives up to the hype.

I think Josh's point was, "how do you define them BEFORE they have major success and win Super Bowls?". Manning was first overall pick but took about 10 years before he won a SB. Roethlisberger won both his SBs with pedestrian stats. I don't think he was in the Pro Bowl either year he won. Brady was a sixth round pick who spent his previous season as a backup when he won his first SB. Warner was undrafted and kicked around the "minor leagues" of football for a few years before he even made it to the NFL. Took Elway a long time to break through, and his passer ratings weren't that great through some of the early years. If Cutler is supposed to be a "franchise" QB, he hasn't shown any symptoms so far. I think his won/loss record is barely over .500 for his career, and his passing stats were never above middle of the pack over 6 seasons. Phillip Rivers has great numbers but no trophy. Eli Manning has a trophy and mediocre numbers for his career. Is either a "franchise" QB? Brett Favre and Drew Brees were second round picks playing for their second team before they had success.

Originally Posted by robert ethan

I think Josh's point was, "how do you define them BEFORE they have major success and win Super Bowls?". Manning was first overall pick but took about 10 years before he won a SB. Roethlisberger won both his SBs with pedestrian stats. I don't think he was in the Pro Bowl either year he won. Brady was a sixth round pick who spent his previous season as a backup when he won his first SB. Warner was undrafted and kicked around the "minor leagues" of football for a few years before he even made it to the NFL. Took Elway a long time to break through, and his passer ratings weren't that great through some of the early years. If Cutler is supposed to be a "franchise" QB, he hasn't shown any symptoms so far. I think his won/loss record is barely over .500 for his career, and his passing stats were never above middle of the pack over 6 seasons. Phillip Rivers has great numbers but no trophy. Eli Manning has a trophy and mediocre numbers for his career. Is either a "franchise" QB? Brett Favre and Drew Brees were second round picks playing for their second team before they had success.

Some player just have that "it" about them. That's what I think he saw in Tebow. They are winners. We will see if Tim falls into that category.

Originally Posted by robert ethan

I think Josh's point was, "how do you define them BEFORE they have major success and win Super Bowls?". Manning was first overall pick but took about 10 years before he won a SB. Roethlisberger won both his SBs with pedestrian stats. I don't think he was in the Pro Bowl either year he won. Brady was a sixth round pick who spent his previous season as a backup when he won his first SB. Warner was undrafted and kicked around the "minor leagues" of football for a few years before he even made it to the NFL. Took Elway a long time to break through, and his passer ratings weren't that great through some of the early years. If Cutler is supposed to be a "franchise" QB, he hasn't shown any symptoms so far. I think his won/loss record is barely over .500 for his career, and his passing stats were never above middle of the pack over 6 seasons. Phillip Rivers has great numbers but no trophy. Eli Manning has a trophy and mediocre numbers for his career. Is either a "franchise" QB? Brett Favre and Drew Brees were second round picks playing for their second team before they had success.

I think the point is that Josh is a dumbass.

Originally Posted by BroncoStud

I think the point is that Josh is a dumbass.

That's a given but he certainly won some games with Brady.

Originally Posted by Canmore

That's a given but he certainly won some games with Brady.

Which pretty much refutes McDaniels' point. Thanks for reviving this thread RC, I was feeling down about football, but reading that made me think back to the day McD got fired and I smiled a little bit.

Originally Posted by Canmore

That's a given but he certainly won some games with Brady.

This is true but if he's saying Brady isn't a franchise quarterback then who is?

Originally Posted by Northman

Who knows. However, Manning was probably a Franchise QB (or considered one) long before he got his ring.

As was John.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

Sure it's possible but doesn't happen very often that a team wins a championship with a journeyman quarterback. The last team to do it was the Buccaneers.

Don't forget the Ravens won a SB with a journeyman QB as well.

Manning was considered a Franchise QB before he won the SUper Bowl, and so is Rivers. Roth and Brady won early in their careers, but continued to have success and take their teams BACK. The ONE Super Bowl didn't "make" them one of the best in the NFL. As we've seen Dilfer, Johnson,.... hell even Rodgers and Brees have just one SB ring.

Its not the championships, but their play. Its how GOOD they are and the DIFFERENCE they make when on the field. It absolutely is NOT just the numbers. This Fantasy Football world wants to determine how good the player is by how well he ranks in fantasy stats. Roth's "pedestrian" numbers have very little to do with how GOOD he is and just how much he is a HUGE difference maker in the game.

This article is just another example of just how far McDaniels was over his head. He was the poor kid at the deep end of the pool, dog paddling like crazy just to keep his head above water. When his single "Water Wing" (Nolan) floated away and left to get away from him ... McD sank like a rock.

Yeah, except he is right.

The term FQB is so overused it has become meaningless.

Originally Posted by slim

Yeah, except he is right.

The term FQB is so overused it has become meaningless.

I think Orton pretty well lays it on the line: "If the organization thinks you're one, then you're one."

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