Thread: Town Hall Discussion: Public Announcements of Banned individuals

Sould be a few more members on the log. Other than that....cool.

Originally Posted by tnedator

All very good points, and I will be interested in seeing the rest of the feedback.

Just one thing. As long as it is done in a constructive manner and addressing the rules/system, then I welcome our rules and processes coming under scrutiny. What I mean is that I am committed to providing a community that is designed for the community, not one that forces everyone to conform to 'my' view of what's right or any other individual's view.

I'm not talking about rules and processes. I'm talking about judgement calls. You can't possibly execute it exactly the same all the time... situations aren't going to be the same all the time.

Even if you're perfect, this opens the door to more posters crying foul...

And you're going to be at a natural disadvantage in any of those situations... where posters try to make you and your staff's decisions look biased, and you have to try and defend yourself without giving up information about other people's situations that you'd rather not... or shouldn't.

Originally Posted by LordTrychon

I'm not talking about rules and processes. I'm talking about judgement calls. You can't possibly execute it exactly the same all the time... situations aren't going to be the same all the time.

Even if you're perfect, this opens the door to more posters crying foul...

And you're going to be at a natural disadvantage in any of those situations... where posters try to make you and your staff's decisions look biased, and you have to try and defend yourself without giving up information about other people's situations that you'd rather not... or shouldn't.

Exactly, so rather than 'dance around' and not be willing to answer the "why was xxxxx banned" threads, we will simply say, "refer to the ban/suspended log".

Then, if someone wants to address a rule, or even the banning process itself, that's great.

Originally Posted by tnedator

Exactly, so rather than 'dance around' and not be willing to answer the "why was xxxxx banned" threads, we will simply say, "refer to the ban/suspended log".

Then, if someone wants to address a rule, or even the banning process itself, that's great.

I see your point.

Like I said... go for it.... more power to ya.


I was just playin devil's advocate.

Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol)

If every one follows the rules/guidelines, there will be no need for this.

True.


But that is not the point.


For instance, I know Lex is banned ONLY because Tned posted so. I would not have noticed otherwise.


So why is it important that I, or anyone else besides mods, know?

I honestly don't see the point if instituting a policy that has no positive, community building aspects, but chooses to embarrass members who made a mistake.

I could see posting PERMANENT bans, which I assume happens after a pattern of behavior over the course of time, but not all bans.

Originally Posted by cpr940

True.


But that is not the point.


For instance, I know Lex is banned ONLY because Tned posted so. I would not have noticed otherwise.


So why is it important that I, or anyone else besides mods, know?

I honestly don't see the point if instituting a policy that has no positive, community building aspects, but chooses to embarrass members who made a mistake.

I could see posting PERMANENT bans, which I assume happens after a pattern of behavior over the course of time, but not all bans.

FWIW, to date, and likely never, will a ban/suspension happen for anything other than a pattern of behavior. We have had large transgressions with nothing more than a warning. While it could change, or if a mistake was big enough, it might be different, but nobody here plans to ban somebody over a single mistake. This is first and foremost a place to have fun, and only when people routinely take that pleasure away from the other posters will they be suspended/banned.

Your points are excellant, please don't misunderstand my response. It is only to point out that we aren't going to respond with a nuclear response when a PM warning is appropriate.

Originally Posted by beefstew25

None of the members work here. Plus, if a member is going to get embarrassed, maybe they should have thought about not getting banned in the first place.

Tned has bent over backwards here. I for one am going to give him the benefit of the doubt. He has a nice smile.

Everyone says that until they get banned, and then, they come back bitching and moaning about the mods.
Every single board I've ever been on has had that happen.
I think doing this will just add to the bitching and moaning from members who didn't get banned, who will then question the mods judgement on it.
Because lets face it, people are nosy. But that doesn't mean you give in to them.

Originally Posted by tnedator

FWIW, to date, and likely never, will a ban/suspension happen for anything other than a pattern of behavior. We have had large transgressions with nothing more than a warning. While it could change, or if a mistake was big enough, it might be different, but nobody here plans to ban somebody over a single mistake. This is first and foremost a place to have fun, and only when people routinely take that pleasure away from the other posters will they be suspended/banned.

Your points are excellant, please don't misunderstand my response. It is only to point out that we aren't going to respond with a nuclear response when a PM warning is appropriate.

If that is the case, then that would mean all bans should be permanent, which would make this policy ok. Then it does serve to warn members about what is and is not acceptable.

But I thought the current ban in place was a temp ban.

Ultimately, this feels like a digital version of the historical figure Vlad the Impaler of Romania who impaled those who crossed him and left them on public display as a warning. It served only to instill fear, not respect, while serving no positive purpose for anyone else.

Originally Posted by cpr940

If that is the case, then that would mean all bans should be permanent, which would make this policy ok. Then it does serve to warn members about what is and is not acceptable.

But I thought the current ban in place was a temp ban.

The only kind of 'single act' suspension that I could see happening is someone getting completely out of control, spamming the board, and the mods can't keep up with him or her. We have come close to having to create these 'emergency' bans before, but never have. Then, there is a suspension that is given to a person that has been given REPEATED warnings, including, "if you continue, we will have no choice but to suspend you", this person would be given a temp suspension. If they came back and did the same thing, again with warnings, they would likely get a longer suspension, and if again, maybe permanent, but it would depend on many things.

The point is, that it would have to be a BIG 'mistake' for anyone to get banned here. Before the advisory board was disbanded, and among the mods, we have talked about banning/suspending being last resorts, because how badly the community looks upon it. The mods may cringe that I say that out loud, but the fact is, that we have and will do everything we can to not suspend/ban people, and I think it is good that people know that nobody is going to be hair trigger in this regard.

Beyond that, as to whether or not it should be public, that is what this discussion is about.

I like the list being published. It's not like it's the first place I go, but if I happened to hear that someone was banned, I would know right away where to go to find out the reason why without bothering anyone.

As far as admonishment in private: it would seem that prior to a ban a member would have received multiple PRIVATE warnings regarding their behavior. You have to have an actual punishment at some point for those who ignore the "private" admonishment.

I like it - till i get banned


Which wont happen - right tned

Originally Posted by tubby

Sould be a few more members on the log. Other than that....cool.

agreed-- i want to see heads roll!

Originally Posted by cpr940

I honestly don't see the point if instituting a policy that has no positive, community building aspects, but chooses to embarrass members who made a mistake.

they brought the embarrassment on themselves when they chose to repeatedly and knowingly violate the rules of the community. . . .

Originally Posted by cpr940

Ultimately, this feels like a digital version of the historical figure Vlad the Impaler of Romania who impaled those who crossed him and left them on public display as a warning. It served only to instill fear, not respect, while serving no positive purpose for anyone else.

point taken, but am i the only one who's amused by a comparison between public execution and having your posting privileges on an internet message board removed for a week? i know you didn't mean it literally, but still. . .

I figure if I haven't been banned yet...it may be awhile before I do. However, if and when that happens...I will know why and most likely everyone else will as well. Based on that, I could care less if these are made public or not.

However, there have been scenario's on the Freak where members have been banned, only to have the banning mod come back and admit they were wrong. So, if the reason is posted, it would allow the banned member to make a case for an appeal AND maybe allow some insight from other members on the situation.

I have been asking for this type of thread for years.

Good call!!

Originally Posted by Watchthemiddle

I have been asking for this type of thread for years.

Good call!!

a thread listing bans/suspensions?

Or

a thread discussing the listing of bans and suspensions?