Thread: The Debate: Who should be responsible for college costs?

Originally Posted by Requiem

I don't think you interpreted me right.

Poor people who cannot afford college education shouldn't have to resort to joining the military to make higher education obtainable.

Resort to? Like it's a bad thing to serve?

Originally Posted by Buff

I can see why people would be wary of another tax payer-funded program--and it's absolutely debatable whether or not our government could pull it off without screwing it up completely...

But from an idealist's perspective, you could set up a program that has people doing real public service that benefits society while getting tuition credits for college, which strengthens the domestic workforce and the economy. If it's done properly, you could find ways to get the program to pay for itself by allocating people to work for gov't agencies with budget shortfalls. (i.e. By having kids build roads, you'd essentially be stretching your transportation budget dollars to also include education by paying labor in the form of tuition--killing two birds with one stone.)

At the end of the day it's probably all hippie utopian society crap, but I'm just saying I am in favor of a non-military public service-for-education trade if it's done properly.

Even poor Americans will tell you they're not gonna pave roads because that's what the Mexicans are for.

Originally Posted by Requiem

As soon as I'm done here, North Dakota. . . *waves goodbye*



Depends on how you live. I'm not like a lot of people. Don't do a lot of the same things, feed into the same bullshit. I'm the knife that cuts the line on the sinker, not the sucker who bites on it.

You do wear tie-dye shirts...

Originally Posted by Buff

I can see why people would be wary of another tax payer-funded program--and it's absolutely debatable whether or not our government could pull it off without screwing it up completely...

But from an idealist's perspective, you could set up a program that has people doing real public service that benefits society while getting tuition credits for college, which strengthens the domestic workforce and the economy. If it's done properly, you could find ways to get the program to pay for itself by allocating people to work for gov't agencies with budget shortfalls. (i.e. By having kids build roads, you'd essentially be stretching your transportation budget dollars to also include education by paying labor in the form of tuition--killing two birds with one stone.)

At the end of the day it's probably all hippie utopian society crap, but I'm just saying I am in favor of a non-military public service-for-education trade if it's done properly.

If you think for one second the Public Employees Unions will let College kids dig into their membership or even their oevrtime you haven't had enough experience with these slugs. In this stupid state we can't even make convicts work on pretty much anything because they would be doing work that the Public Unions consider their birthright.

As for Government being inefficient just one general observation - this applies to all big organizations. Conservatives sometimes make the error of thinking privatization will fix all inefficiencies, but in fact I think size makes things fail as well. The only real exception I can think of is Wal-Mart, but thats not an example easy to emulate elsewhere - because why it works is that Sam Walton calls all the shots basically without let or hindrance. Those kind of Autocratic organizations only work when the Autocrat really knows what he's doing, and are a totally unfit model for governing a free people regardless.

Big organizations get clumsy, slow, bureaucratic, and risk averse. That applies to private corporations as well. Even the Military, probably as effective a government agency as there is, is very far from efficient. Effective? Damn straight. Cost effective? Not hardly.

Originally Posted by claymore

Something that really requires it. Something that will make more than 30k a year.

IDK, if they want to become a social worker or something I think that's worth it.

If they become a history or an art major, shoot them.

Originally Posted by SeeingRed

I never went to college. FML.

Ok, but there's a huge difference. College isn't for everyone, and neither is the military.

Yes, there are some retarded degrees. Yes, at 18 you're an adult. However, if you can afford to help your kid out I would.

Originally Posted by claymore

My end point being........... 90% of the jobs in America do not require a higher education anyway.

Move to a certification system similar to what IT is doing. Apprenticeship, like what electrical does.

Why pay 40k for some shit that you will never ever use in real life? If you want to know it...... Google it for free!

I am currently frustrated as all hell with the liberal arts university I attend. Although I didn't know it at the time I applied, it has one of the best business school in the country (I only came here because it was in my hometown and was my least expensive option). The business school is run almost completely separate from the rest of campus, isn't facing the same funding crisis every other department is, etc. But graduation requirements are that half of my required college credit come from outside the business school so that I am "a well rounded individual". **** that, I already AM a well rounded individual. I can, and did do that shit on my own time before I went to school. So I've been desperately searching for classes to take that will still benefit me in my chosen career and taking classes within the business school that will not count towards graduation because I have a genuine need for them. Liberal Arts requirements are BS and really tick me off at the moment.

Sorry....just venting there for a moment. Moving on....

I wish we wouldn't teach our children that everyone should go to college and that certain jobs are beneath them. I also think it would be massively beneficial for every person to have to live on their own, in the workforce for one year before attending college. It makes SUCH a difference. Too many kid's perspectives are all screwed up because they don't have an adequate picture of what the world is really like. I think some people may chose a different career path when they realize that their history major will get them only slightly more money than they were making before school. And honestly, what does an art degree get you? I still can't figure that one out. If you want to be a professional artist, you don't need school.

It would be nice if when you choose your major they gave you a two pie charts and one pie (college is expensive and we're hungry, dammit) that shows where the majority of the people with your budget are in regards to their career and how much money they're making.

I know a guy who is a history major and he's a major ass. He didn't plan on going back to school to get a masters or do anything at all and he's stuck with his 4 year degree...he's doing nothing. It's actually pretty sweet because he's a pompous racist ass.

Originally Posted by SeeingRed

Resort to? Like it's a bad thing to serve?

Of course not, SR -- I think you read into the words more than you needed to.

It is not a bad thing to serve at all. In fact, it is one of the most selfless, honorable and admirable things you can do. My point is, not everyone is cut out for the military -- I think you, and many other veterans on this site can attest to that.

My point implied point was that there should be other avenues available to those struggling to afford school to be able to obtain higher education than military service. Slim noted that we had other programs, but those programs are not enough in my eyes.

Hope ya understand.

History majors actually have a lot of opportunities available to the post graduation. I know multiple people who have went on to do work in various levels of government from local to state to federal, and others who have went on further in education to become educators. Others are teachers, others work for museums domestically and abroad.

If people are going to school for an Art degree, I'm going to tell you it is probably for a particular reason. I know several Art/Art History majors who are now working in museums or wish to work in them and specialize in a type or form of Art that interests them. The variety of things you can focus on within Art are innumerable.

At any case, it is really the idea of having a degree. I went to school to study things I genuinely love: Politics and Humanity; thus two major degrees in Political Science and Anthropology. Some say I have wasted my money, all that I have learned at school could have been done on my own time, independently, elsewhere without investing all that money. Perhaps.

But what doing that didn't do gave me relationships that lasted a lifetime, proper networking skills, a vast array of references, and opportunities and positions that will look good for me entering my future career. I think that is what a lot of kids in college forget to do -- the networking part and actually getting involved. Far more to college than just going to classes.

Moreover, I know that someday, whenever it is -- I want to continue my education and mesh both of the degrees above into something that is important to me. I've been thinking about Political Anthropology a lot lately. So, essentially, it isn't always what a certain degree is or is about, but the potential that degree can get you elsewhere.

And Frau, I'm not really sure why you are complaining about your requirements. If you knew that your institution was a prideful Liberal Arts college, you should have expected that you will have to take some general and cross-discipline courses to graduate. I'm sure you are a well rounded individual, but there is always more to learn. I'm assuming that some of the courses you are having to take are liberal arts in nature.

IIRC, you are doing something with Management Information Systems? There are plenty of things offered in CLA's that can help you down the road and your potential endeavors. Open your mind to it.

Originally Posted by frauschieze

But graduation requirements are that half of my required college credit come from outside the business school so that I am "a well rounded individual". **** that, I already AM a well rounded individual.

very well rounded. . . .

Originally Posted by cheese

I wish we wouldn't teach our children that everyone should go to college and that certain jobs are beneath them. I also think it would be massively beneficial for every person to have to live on their own, in the workforce for one year before attending college. It makes SUCH a difference. Too many kid's perspectives are all screwed up because they don't have an adequate picture of what the world is really like. I think some people may chose a different career path when they realize that their history major will get them only slightly more money than they were making before school.

agreed. . . .

Originally Posted by cheese

And honestly, what does an art degree get you? I still can't figure that one out. If you want to be a professional artist, you don't need school.

i have a good friend whose paintings have sold for us much as 4K a pop-- he never spent a single minute in any art class, not even high school level. . . . OTOH, most of the people i know who got art degrees work in telemarketing or some shit. . . .

Id wash my mouth out with a .45 before I paid for an art degree. What a waste of money.