Thread: Town Hall Discussion: Feedback wanted on rules, moderation, banning procedures, etc.

Originally Posted by JayCutler4MVP!!!

Yea I wont use that as my sig because no matter what there will always be some people upset. Thats why I posted the link incase you didn't want to see it then you didn't have to view it. I was trying to be nice.

I'll try to find a clean sig to use where the girl is washing dishes or baking cookies instead of the sick perverted one that I had.

Ouch!

I bet that pissed a few people off!

LOL

Originally Posted by fcspikeit

The law's very from State to State but every State has a public conduct ordinance that covers profanity and nudity in public establishments. The laws aren't there to take away anyone's freedom, they are there to protect the freedom of those who don't want themselves or there children subject to unapropiate behavior. The law that says one can't be intoxicated in public is part of the public conduct ordinance.

I don't swear by the law, even if there wasn't a law, it wouldn't change my opinion about using profanity while in the presence of minors. For me its a moral issue, why would I subject someone else's children to something I don't want my kids subject too?

You referenced a law censoring the internet. Show me that law. All that crap you said in the above post has no relevance to the internet at all.

Originally Posted by fcspikeit

If we are going to make a no profanity rule it should be enforced to the point you could get banned for it. If a member can't get banned for braking a rule the rule needs to be dumped!

This is a great post... I know it was from 8 pages ago, but I wanted to bring this back up.

Whatever ends up being decided regarding the rules, keep in mind that eventually need to be enforced. I'm not saying that it should be strict or not very strict or anything... but that anything that can be an offense can eventually be a bannable offense.

Originally Posted by SeeingRed

You referenced a law censoring the internet. Show me that law. All that crap you said in the above post has no relevance to the internet at all.

Where did I refer to a law on the Internet? My comment about the law was directed towards your comments about what your wife said in the mall.

However, I believe the FCC has rules about nudity and profanity that also cover the Internet. Tned would be the one to answer this one. I'm sure he has looked into it further then I beings he owns the domain name.

The point is irrelevant anyways, Tned is not going to allaw nudity & serious profanity here if minors can view these boards, even if there isn't a law regarding the Internet.

I'm sure he respects your opinion but his name is on the dotted line. I trust the advisory board but even if they voted to allow everything under the sun he still has to answer for everything that goes on here

Originally Posted by tnedator

While I am trying to reserve my opinions, because I feel other people's opinions far more important than mine for the benefit of the community, I will chime in on this.

That is probably a problem because of the depiction of a sexual act. Legally, it is probably borderline, in all reality. The famouse sponge/car wash scene in desperate housewives is almost as bad, but because of where her hand is and the implied sexual act, I personally want no part of it when my name is on the domain registration and server lease.

Originally Posted by tnedator

Ok, we are a few days short of our four month anniversary and it’s time to take another look at our rules and guidelines. Initially, we put our rules together in a rather hurried fashion, and ‘borrowed’ bits and pieces from several other online communities to give us a starting point.

Now that we have all had three or four months to see how things are going, we would like some feedback. The advisory board can't guarantee that all feedback will be implemented, but it will all be listened to and considered. The importance of discussion like this is for the advisory board to see where the community stands, and if there are areas where it is clear that most members feel a change should take place, then we will strongly consider such a change.

First, let’s set some ground rules:

• This is not a chance to pile on the moderators. They have a tough job, and are attempting to enforce the rules that are in place.
  
• Blame the system, not the people. If our rules are too strict, let’s focus on that, because the moderators are expected to enforce the rules in place, whether they like or agree with them.

Back to what we need to accomplish. This is an open discussion. This means we aren’t voting, we aren’t asking for yes/no responses, we are looking for feedback. What’s working well, what would you like to see different. In addition, while we have yet needed to ban any members, that time will come. We need input from you on the process you would like us to follow. So, with all of that said, here are some of the topics we would like feedback on, but feel free to cover any other rules/moderation/banning topics you feel we need to discuss.

Rules in general:

• Are the rules as they are written now, on the mark, too strict, too loose?

Obscene Language/Profanity:

• Where should the line be drawn in terms of what is or isn’t profanity?
• What is or isn’t acceptable language to use?
• Are terms like WTH or WTF ok?
• What about people posting words that are caught by the profanity censor, or slightly altered to avoid the filter. Is it ok to post: The team played like *** or the team played like sh!t?
• What level of language should actually be filtered, where should the line be drawn between what is ‘acceptable’ to most people, and what is profane?

Sexually Explicit Images:

• What images shouldn’t be allowed?
• Nudity is a given, because this is not an adult-only site, but beyond that, where is the line drawn?
• Are pics or women in bra and panties (Victoria Secret models) or bikinis ok? What about men in speedos?
• A normal bikini bottom vs. a thong?

There are many different opinions about what is or isn’t acceptable, what is or isn’t sexually explicit. Where do you stand?

Moderation:
Realize that the moderation is tied very directly to the rules, and that changing the rules will have the knock on effect of changing how moderation is done.

• Do you feel we are hitting the mark in our moderation (general threads, game day threads, etc.) or are we too strict or too lenient in our moderation?
• Again, respecting the hard work of our volunteer moderation staff, are we hitting the mark with our moderation, and how can we get better?

Duck Before Entering/Smack:
Should this forum be more loosely moderated than other forums? Should more flaming/personal attacks be allowed?

Banning:

• The time will come, when we have to start banning members. There are multiple issues to consider and methods that this can happen.
• The first issue related to banning is how strongly should the rules be enforced. Meaning, is it acceptable for people to repeatedly break the rules (posting profanity for instance) and simply have the moderators edit/delete posts, or should the rules be strictly enforced and those that break them should be suspended for x days?
• At what point, in terms of breaking rules, should a person be suspended from the board. If they avoid the language filter once, or 10 times or 100 times?
• Should banning be a formalized process, such as a system that might have two official warnings and then a suspension, possibly followed by a probation period, OR, should all bans be voted on by the 7 members advisory board, OR should suspensions/bans be determined by the moderators?
• On other message boards, few things have created as much controversy as banning, so this is something where we really need community feedback, in terms of how it should be done.

Infraction Point System:

• Should we consider implementing an Infraction Point (IP) system, with publicly stated point values and suspension/banning/loss of privileges thresholds?
• While people coming over from BM have a bad taste in their mouth about how the IP system works, many other sites have successfully implemented IP systems, and it provides a means to avoid surprises to members in regards of where they stand and reduces the number of 'surprise' bannings.

Any other Rules/moderation topics you would like to discuss

• Any other topics related to rules, moderation, banning or similar topics that weren't covered above.

Im a big advocate of Jessica Alba pole-dancing in sigs.

Originally Posted by LordTrychon

This is a great post... I know it was from 8 pages ago, but I wanted to bring this back up.

Whatever ends up being decided regarding the rules, keep in mind that eventually need to be enforced. I'm not saying that it should be strict or not very strict or anything... but that anything that can be an offense can eventually be a bannable offense.

If there is no consequences for members offenses then there is nothing to stop anyone from repeating the offense.

All that will lead to is more work by the mods, continually editing the same members post's over and over.

Lets not forget the mods work for free. IMO we need to make the rules as clear as possible for both the members and mods. Opinions very and when your dealing with gray area people could feel there is favoritism when there post gets edited and they see another they perceive to be the same get left alone.

Originally Posted by fcspikeit

If there is no consequences for members offenses then there is nothing to stop anyone from repeating the offense.

All that will lead to is more work by the mods, continually editing the same members post's over and over.

Lets not forget the mods work for free. IMO we need to make the rules as clear as possible for both the members and mods. Opinions very and when your dealing with gray area people could feel there is favoritism when there post gets edited and they see another they perceive to be the same get left alone.

Both you and LT make a great point. If there is a rule of no profanity then it needs to be enforced as does all ruled. Editing a post by a mod does not enforce anything. Its not even a slap on the hand. I could see editing it once, then giving a warning. Editing it twice then a day ban...and so on. There is no point to continuesly edit posts if there is no follow up punishment.

I havent read the thread so if I repeat something, please excuse me.

personally I think it is hopeless to create a "family friendly" ideal.
let the people act as they normally do in real life with the mild swearing and stuff.
In real life we dont attack eachother personally and that is the real problem. That and of course nude pics.
I am a former member of broncosfreak and there they tried to maintain that family friendly stuff, and the whole issue is almost deemed to fail as mods and people have different opinions to what is FF. And if one mod is more constrained or conservative than others, eventually it creates a huge difference of opinion not to say people will feel mistreated.
Thus, when you do start banning, the parameters have been set, and to maintain some sort of justice you will eventually have to ban or warn members set by the least standards you choose. That usually means that it will only get stricter and stricter which in the end destroys the board, at least to me and a lot of others.
I had nearly left broncosfreak before this new things happened because of what I said earlier. The fun went astray, as well as cool members became banned one after another.

let the members moderate themselves as much as possible is my suggestion and tell people to get a thick skin. Some time or another almost every member will have a meltdown anyway, but that is just normal. We usually make up ourselves in the end.

But if you do choose to ban members, I think it is imperative to have some sort of thread where others get to see that the member is banned, with a little explanation to why.

Originally Posted by haroldthebarrel

But if you do choose to ban members, I think it is imperative to have some sort of thread where others get to see that the member is banned, with a little explanation to why.

Here, here....You've GOT to explain to other members what happened, otherwise they will get pissy.

Originally Posted by Watchthemiddle

Both you and LT make a great point. If there is a rule of no profanity then it needs to be enforced as does all ruled. Editing a post by a mod does not enforce anything. Its not even a slap on the hand. I could see editing it once, then giving a warning. Editing it twice then a day ban...and so on. There is no point to continuesly edit posts if there is no follow up punishment.

Believe it or not, that's considerably more hardline than I would've suggested. lol.

As language is a more minor offense, IMO... having to edit here and there is not a big deal. The only time I'd ban someone after just a few offenses was if it was obvious they were doing it despite just being previously warned... kinda just to spite the mod... catch what I mean?

Then if it becomes obvious that it's repetitive, and you're warning that member on a somewhat regular basis... then you tell them they need a day off to think about if they want to post withing the guidelines of the forums.

Originally Posted by MissouriBronc

Here, here....You've GOT to explain to other members what happened, otherwise they will get pissy.

yeah really. it is so confusing when somebody is banned and nobody knows why. Then as you say they get pissy, as well as one get a lot of others asking why.

Personally, I used to have a principle that i shouldnt ignore anybody. When I started doing that I never looked back. Saved a lot of aggravation that way, as well as a lot of threads got a lot easier to read.
The ignore button is a great thing. I only wish more people would use it when they get into an online fight with another. It is so annoying to see a thread with an interesting title and lots of posts only to discover it is full of somebody flaming and arguing. The persons who really suffers are all those who are not into the arguments.

I will say that if it was up to me and I was the leader of some kind of message board, I wouldnt give a rats ass about swearing.... even the f word. People use that all the time in RL so why be double standard. There are other things that are a lot more severe to the structure of a board.

Originally Posted by MissouriBronc

Here, here....You've GOT to explain to other members what happened, otherwise they will get pissy.

Is that the way it was on the freak?

Obviously we have a new issue to discuss...

Should bannings be public knowledge or not?

I just joined. I respect that I don't have as much clout as most of the members who have been here since the inception, but banning members for using curse words, which I imagine are already censored is a little much.

No offense to anyone, but this IS a football forum. They are words. I understand if someone insults someone, but if I drop a random S-Bomb, or even an F-Bomb, I don't think I should get a ban, no matter the circumstances, unless it is insulting someone.

Originally Posted by LordTrychon

Is that the way it was on the freak?

Obviously we have a new issue to discuss...

Should bannings be public knowledge or not?

No, they weren't public, and I think it caused a lot of dissent among the members, especially those of us who are around a lot.

Originally Posted by MissouriBronc

I just joined. I respect that I don't have as much clout as most of the members who have been here since the inception, but banning members for using curse words, which I imagine are already censored is a little much.

No offense to anyone, but this IS a football forum. They are words. I understand if someone insults someone, but if I drop a random S-Bomb, or even an F-Bomb, I don't think I should get a ban, no matter the circumstances, unless it is insulting someone.

Your voice is just as important as anyone else here, save Tned as 'owner'. Fortunately for everyone, he's willing to defer almost all that power.

Again... I only think someone should be banned for it if they just flat out won't listen when they're asked to stop breaking the rules.

Any rule that's in place has to be enforced somehow. Especially if it's being broken repeatedly. If you read my post, I'm in no way saying someone should be permabanned for dropping their first Fbomb.

If you don't think there should be a rule against language... that's different... but there's no point in saying... here's the rule, but nothing will happen if you break it as much as you'd like.