Thread: Town Hall Discussion: Feedback wanted on rules, moderation, banning procedures, etc.

I think banning vulgarity is discrimination as it discriminates against people too stupid to post intelligent posts without swearing. Take me for example, I mean don't literally take me. I'm stupid enough that every post I make should include a 4 letter word but sadly I understand this and thus I post without swearing in order for people to have absolutely no idea what I was writing about. And besides even if one did understand what I was writing about, chances are they simply wouldn't care. So Vote No on swearing rules! Discrimination against cussers and swearers must stop today! We have a Constitutional Right to be Stupid and Ignorant!!

Originally Posted by fcspikeit

That brings me to another question,, What do you feel about the mods (and board members) posting their thoughts here? I know one who said it would be best that he not post because he's a mod. But IMO they are members as well and they should have equal say in what goes on here.

thanks. . . i've kept out of the discussion so far-- as tned said, to let the members "have their say" before mods and board members start posting-- but i'm a member of the forum as well as the advisory board, and i feel that i still have the right to express my opinions. . . here are a few of them. . .

as for the swearing-- my mouth is atrocious, so i'm not easily offended, but i was raised to respect others, so i try to tone it down in mixed company. . . that's something i certainly don't "have to" do, but i believe in being reasonably polite to others as long as they're polite to me. . . i completely refuse to believe that not being allowed to drop f-bombs prevents anyone from being able to enjoy this forum, while i do believe that having to hear that type of language would probably lessen the enjoyment of some people (maybe that makes them uptight, maybe we're just a bunch of vulgar bums-- it's just your opinion). . . i'm pretty satisfed with the profanity filter where it is, although i think filtering the word s l u t is kinda ridiculous and prudish. . .

i do think that evading the filter by typing $hit or d1ck shouldn't be allowed-- if you're going to let people do that, you may as well just let them type the words themselves-- it's essentially the same thing. . . again, just a matter of opinion, but i'm okay with acronyms like WTF or LMFAO-- but i won't cry if they go away, either. . . i think the "as long as it's acceptable on cable TV" is a pretty fair guidline. . .

i like that one for the posting of "graphic" images, as well-- if it's something you'd see on desperate housewives, or on a magazine cover at a normal grocery store (not behind the counter at 7-11 ), there's no reason it should be prohibited here. . . in fact, i feel that pretty much anything less than full frontal nudity should be acceptable, as what you can see cheerleaders wear at invesco on any sunday isn't much more than that. . . IMO distinguishing between bikinis or thongs and lingerie is silly, unless we're talking about lingerie made of saran wrap. . .

my big thing on this is that it needs to be enforced as evenly as possible-- there shouldn't be one standard for what's permissible when posting pics of women, and another for what's permissible when posting pics of men. . . no double standard! i also fail to see why animated gifs should be judged differently than still pictures, unless they're REALLY graphic. . . my opinion is that sexually SUGGESTIVE material should be tolerated, while sexually EXPLICIT material should not be. . .

one thing that i'm pretty much seing a consensus on is the smack forum, and i'm in agreement here-- things should be moderated a little more loosely there. . . not that people should be allowed to subvert the language filter, but i think mild insults and personal attacks that aren't acceptable elsewhere should be let slide in smack. . . if you can't handle "you're an idiot" and "how does a moron like you manage to tie his own shoes in the morning," then smack isn't the forum for you. . .

however, i do NOT think people should be able to engage in all-out flame wars that stretch over dozens of posts and become increasingly more personal. . . it's not that it bothers me so much, as it is that that junk can pretty much ruin an otherwise perfectly good thread. . . IMO, say whatcha gotta say and have done with, but there's nothing worrse than opening a thread and having to read through six pages of two knuckleheads going back and forth with "i know what you are, but what am i?"-- if they're so pissy and immature that they need to do that, start up a seperate thread rather than pollute one that other people might actually want to use for posting on the stated topic. . . when that stuff starts going on, IMO it should be okay for a mod to tell them "gte back ontopic or take it somewhere else, fellas"-- that's the kind of stuff that ends up dragging over into other forums. . .

and personally, i think smack should be pretty firmly restricted to the smack forum-- it's fine if YOU think smack belongs everywhere and is a part of life, but i come here mostly to have intelligent discussion about football, NOT to talk junk and run my mouth. . . there's no reason that stuff should be going on in the general discussions (broncos talk and other teams) forums. . . what's the point of having a seperate smack forum if it's open season everywhere?? some friendly banter between fans of different teams is okay, but remember-- what YOU think is "friendly," someone else may not take that way. . . instead of telling them to "lighten up" or "get thicker skin," why not just take it to the smack forum if you want to talk smack? otherwise, i need to push for the establishment of a "grown-up discussions only" forum. . .

maybe it's just me, but i like to go to the "other teams" forum and be able to have a semi-serious conversation about what the QB situation of the chiefs, browns, or any other team is going to be for next year, without it degenerating into a pissing match. . . at the very least, i think people should respect the thread starter if he or she specifically says "no smack in this thread" or something to that effect-- and i think the mods should be available to clean up such threads at the OP's request, if they feel the rules have been violated. . .


okay, more in a little bit. . .


also, i want to thank everyone who's taken the time to post in this thread-- your opinions and desires really ARE important! it's the function of the advisory board to enact them (the wishes of the community as best we can understand them, not YOUR individual wishes, no matter how much you may think they represent the wishes of "most people here" ), but we can't do so if you don't provide them. . . so tell us what you want-- and try to do so without too much personal bickering and griping-- easier for me if i don't have to read through a bunch of petty nonsense to get to what i need to see. . .

good discussion so far, let's keep it going. . .

I would definately have a problem with the "f" bomb being dropped.
Wtf or lmfao aren't really a problem for me. Using all astericks for a curse word doesn't really hurt anything.

Someone said they felt PG13 was a good guideline to go by, I agree with that..

I pretty much agree with everything dogfish said..

I also hate it when you go into an interesting thread, to see it ruined by people not really caring about the topic, smacking each other and sidetracking the thread.

I was on the Bolts board 4 or 5 weeks ago... I was talking to some of their fans about the playoffs and what it would take for the Broncos to get into the playoffs. There was someone there that kept smacking me.. It was clear he didn't care about the conversation.. He was just having fun. I know that, but it ruins the conversation just the same. Most posting there really wanted to have an intelligent conversation.

I know some say, it's just a message board so people should lighten up. The thing is,, everyone comes here for different reasons. I know a lot come to smack. We have a forum for that. They should be allowed to smack each other there as long as it don't get out of hand. But I feel, we should keep the smack out of the other forums. Esp... Bronco talk.

I don't see a big deal if people are goofing around in the lounge either. Most threads there are not of the serious nature anyways.

Mainly I just feel if its a serious thread, with serious conversation, the smack should be left out. Most the time, even the serious threads turn into a joke, where half the post's aren't even about the subject. I'm not saying people can't have fun, more then half the threads here are centered around that.

But there are people here who just want to have a serious conversation about the thread subject. IMO they have that right. I say, lets not ruin their thread. If you don't have something to offer about the thread subject, Don't post there. Every thread doesn't have to turn into happy hour at the comedy club.

Start a new thread and make your friends laugh there

If we are going to filter out a word, the word should not be allowed in any readable form. If we are going to allow sh!t, then we might as well just allow
the correct spelling. I'm not saying sh!t shouldn't be allowed, Just using that as an example of a filtered word.

Filtered words that are typed to slip past the filter don't just slip out. Anyone who types it like that knows the word is not allowed.

okay, here's a few more things. . . on moderation-- by and large i am pretty satisfied with the job that's been done so far. . . this is an area where it is impossible to completely satisfy every single individual all of the time, so the goal should be to reach a reasonable compromise where most of the people are at least relatively satisfied-- i personally feel that we're more or less on track with that. . .

there have indeed been a few rough spots (particularly with some of the more heated discussion that happen in P+R), and the board has been asked to review a small handfull of questions and settle one or two disputes, but in all fairness to the moderators it should be pointed out that they have essentially been "flying blind" up to this point-- none of our mods besides the illustrious LDB have ever done it before, and they have not been provided with an instruction booklet. . .

the board and the mods are currently working together to get some standards in place, but i think it needs to be said that this will probably always be an ongoing process, as we gather more information and opinions-- there is absolutely no way to anticipate every possible situation in advance! however, speaking for the advisory board, what we CAN promise you is that we will do our level best to make sure that things are done as fairly and as consistently as possible, and that any complaint you have will be heard and discussed- of course that is certainly not a guarantee that we will "side with you" or act to change moderator behavior or decisions, but any issues WILL be taken seriously. . . any poster who has a problem or question regarding moderator action should feel free to PM a member of the advisory board, it's one of the things we're here for. . .

it's my personal opinion that less moderation is the best moderation, but THAT is really up to the members of the community. . . make the minimal effort required to follow the rules, and you will never need to see the mods except when they are posting about the broncos like the rest of us-- it's really not that difficult to behave like a civilized, halfway intelligent adult, and the vast majority of people here do just that. . .

i would like to take this opportunity to extend a big, sincere "thanks" to the members of the moderator staff-- everyone should remember that they are donating their time to help keep this place running and make it more enjoyable for the rest of us (and get rid of idiot chargers and raiders trolls! okay-- so the truth is, they haven't gotten rid of anybody yet). . . it's very easy to criticise them when you don't agree with their actions, but don't forget to be appreciative of the time that they give also. . . they are every bit as human and fallible as the rest of us, and inevitably they are not going to be perfect all the time. . . but have some patience, take advantage of the resources available to you here, and we should be able to work together to make this a fun place for everyone to post. . .

To give my feedback, I think the only rules we need are don't spam, don't advertise, don't post in the wrong section, don't bypass filters, and don't hijack threads(with a flame war or otherwise).

My 2 cents: I haven't noticed any moderation issue in my short time here. Maybe need to loosen up the "going off topic" thing. That seems to be a little strict. I think every discussion is bound to go off topic to some degree, kinda the nature of the beast. But overall, I think the moderators here are doing a great job.

As for swearing, I don't really care. But I do think that things like LMAO, WTF, etc are fine and should be allowed. As far as filtering out cuss words, you can filter them all or none of them, it makes no difference to me.

All threads go off-course to a point I agree..Someone just needs to step in and get it back on track. It happens, big deal.

I say let's go NC-17 and allow everything... Censor nothing but Spam.

Profanity= Allowed
Nudity= Allowed
Flaming, Personal Attacks= Allowed

I know that sounds ridiculous and will never happen-- but if we're drawing up our ideal forum-- that's mine.

I get too caught up in how some people are bending the rules more than others-- (i.e. finding roundabout ways to insult other people) When in reality, I don't care about the actual insults so much as the subjectivity and double standards they create. I think the solution is to take the subjectivity (moderators) out of the picture and to allow people to police themselves by either posting, or not posting. At the end of the day, it's just a privately owned message board with a small population and the worst thing that could happen is that someone's feelings will get hurt.

Originally Posted by Buff_bronc_fan

I say let's go NC-17 and allow everything... Censor nothing but Spam.

Profanity= Allowed
Nudity= Allowed
Flaming, Personal Attacks= Allowed

I know that sounds ridiculous and will never happen-- but if we're drawing up our ideal forum-- that's mine.

I get too caught up in how some people are bending the rules more than others-- (i.e. finding roundabout ways to insult other people) When in reality, I don't care about the actual insults so much as the subjectivity and double standards they create. I think the solution is to take the subjectivity (moderators) out of the picture and to allow people to police themselves by either posting, or not posting. At the end of the day, it's just a privately owned message board with a small population and the worst thing that could happen is that someone's feelings will get hurt.

Actually that is my idea of a perfect forum as well. If you cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
And as an experiment I am certain people would moderate themselves to a larger degree, as they wouldnt do the things that pisses themselves off to others.

Originally Posted by dogfish

my big thing on this is that it needs to be enforced as evenly as possible-- there shouldn't be one standard for what's permissible when posting pics of women, and another for what's permissible when posting pics of men. . . no double standard! i also fail to see why animated gifs should be judged differently than still pictures, unless they're REALLY graphic. . . my opinion is that sexually SUGGESTIVE material should be tolerated, while sexually EXPLICIT material should not be. . .

Your entire post was great, Dogfish... but this was the only part that I felt a need to play devils advocate (and yes, that's what I'm doing... I could stare at Jessica Alba for a LONG time on that pole and have indeed done so. lol).

When movies are rated, the association that hands out the ratings pays very close attention to how much time is spent on sexually suggestive material. If a movie's shooting to be PG-13 rather than R, they may have the movie checked multiple times by the association and the association will send back that they need to cut X amount of time off of certain scenes.

A Gif can take something that was originally censored down to half a second or a second of exposure to keep it PG-13 and turn it into a repetitive ongoing neverending motion that most certainly wouldn't have been allowed in the same movie it came from.

I'm not supporting any particular rule change at all here. I just want to explain how murky that line can and has become at times in my experience.

Originally Posted by haroldthebarrel

Actually that is my idea of a perfect forum as well. If you cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
And as an experiment I am certain people would moderate themselves to a larger degree, as they wouldnt do the things that pisses themselves off to others.

While I appreciate your guys' input... this is the one thing that has been made clear WON'T happen. This will never be a 'mature' or 'over 18' site. That brings legal ramifications down on the owner.

A lot of words in this thread, wow.

Originally Posted by LordTrychon

While I appreciate your guys' input... this is the one thing that has been made clear WON'T happen. This will never be a 'mature' or 'over 18' site. That brings legal ramifications down on the owner.

Correct, not NC-17 or beyond theme, because then I would be responsible for doing age verifications and stuff like that (and we don't want to force out our younger members), plus this is a football forum, not an adult entertainment forum. There are plenty of those elsewhere on the web, or so I have been told.

My two cents on the subject of language:

I think anything that can be said on prime time TV would be appropriate. Currently, it's set pretty well, except for the word d!ck. That can be a person's name, like my uncle ****. (I really do have one) You can also say ***** on prime time TV, I wouldn't mind that one being added. Same with sh!t....Acronyms like WTF, FUBAR, SOB, etc. are fine.

Overall, I don't care. **** works well enough for me. Even the F word wouldn't upset me. Swearing doesn't bug me, I'm also known to curse like a sailor when I'm pissed. I do tone down when I'm around my kid and around people who are offended. But I only tone down, I don't quit.

I would lean towards no filters at all except for one thing: I hate reading posts that are FILLED with curse words. If you sentence was filtered and it looks like this: I ******* went down to the ******* bar and *** **** you wouldn't ******** believe the ******* **** that was ******** going down. Perfectly readable with out the asterisks (except the bolded one).

I don't think that breaking the profanity rule should get someone permanently banned. Time outs....sure. But don't kick someone out because they have a potty mouth.