Thread: Town Hall Discussion: Feedback wanted on rules, moderation, banning procedures, etc.

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EDIT 1/5/08

Due to the wandering nature of this thread, and a pressing need to deal with profanity right away, we have created a new thread with very pointed questions about profanity (what is/isn't). Please continue general discussions in this thread, but answer the specific questions at this link: http://broncosforums.com/forums/show...4747#post84747

Thanks
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Ok, we are a few days short of our four month anniversary and it’s time to take another look at our rules and guidelines. Initially, we put our rules together in a rather hurried fashion, and ‘borrowed’ bits and pieces from several other online communities to give us a starting point.

Now that we have all had three or four months to see how things are going, we would like some feedback. The advisory board can't guarantee that all feedback will be implemented, but it will all be listened to and considered. The importance of discussion like this is for the advisory board to see where the community stands, and if there are areas where it is clear that most members feel a change should take place, then we will strongly consider such a change.

First, let’s set some ground rules:

• This is not a chance to pile on the moderators. They have a tough job, and are attempting to enforce the rules that are in place.
  
• Blame the system, not the people. If our rules are too strict, let’s focus on that, because the moderators are expected to enforce the rules in place, whether they like or agree with them.

Back to what we need to accomplish. This is an open discussion. This means we aren’t voting, we aren’t asking for yes/no responses, we are looking for feedback. What’s working well, what would you like to see different. In addition, while we have yet needed to ban any members, that time will come. We need input from you on the process you would like us to follow. So, with all of that said, here are some of the topics we would like feedback on, but feel free to cover any other rules/moderation/banning topics you feel we need to discuss.

Rules in general:

• Are the rules as they are written now, on the mark, too strict, too loose?

Obscene Language/Profanity:

• Where should the line be drawn in terms of what is or isn’t profanity?
• What is or isn’t acceptable language to use?
• Are terms like WTH or WTF ok?
• What about people posting words that are caught by the profanity censor, or slightly altered to avoid the filter. Is it ok to post: The team played like *** or the team played like sh!t?
• What level of language should actually be filtered, where should the line be drawn between what is ‘acceptable’ to most people, and what is profane?

Sexually Explicit Images:

• What images shouldn’t be allowed?
• Nudity is a given, because this is not an adult-only site, but beyond that, where is the line drawn?
• Are pics or women in bra and panties (Victoria Secret models) or bikinis ok? What about men in speedos?
• A normal bikini bottom vs. a thong?

There are many different opinions about what is or isn’t acceptable, what is or isn’t sexually explicit. Where do you stand?

Moderation:
Realize that the moderation is tied very directly to the rules, and that changing the rules will have the knock on effect of changing how moderation is done.

• Do you feel we are hitting the mark in our moderation (general threads, game day threads, etc.) or are we too strict or too lenient in our moderation?
• Again, respecting the hard work of our volunteer moderation staff, are we hitting the mark with our moderation, and how can we get better?

Duck Before Entering/Smack:
Should this forum be more loosely moderated than other forums? Should more flaming/personal attacks be allowed?

Banning:

• The time will come, when we have to start banning members. There are multiple issues to consider and methods that this can happen.
• The first issue related to banning is how strongly should the rules be enforced. Meaning, is it acceptable for people to repeatedly break the rules (posting profanity for instance) and simply have the moderators edit/delete posts, or should the rules be strictly enforced and those that break them should be suspended for x days?
• At what point, in terms of breaking rules, should a person be suspended from the board. If they avoid the language filter once, or 10 times or 100 times?
• Should banning be a formalized process, such as a system that might have two official warnings and then a suspension, possibly followed by a probation period, OR, should all bans be voted on by the 7 members advisory board, OR should suspensions/bans be determined by the moderators?
• On other message boards, few things have created as much controversy as banning, so this is something where we really need community feedback, in terms of how it should be done.

Infraction Point System:

• Should we consider implementing an Infraction Point (IP) system, with publicly stated point values and suspension/banning/loss of privileges thresholds?
• While people coming over from BM have a bad taste in their mouth about how the IP system works, many other sites have successfully implemented IP systems, and it provides a means to avoid surprises to members in regards of where they stand and reduces the number of 'surprise' bannings.

Any other Rules/moderation topics you would like to discuss

• Any other topics related to rules, moderation, banning or similar topics that weren't covered above.

Originally Posted by tnedator

Obscene Language/Profanity:

• Where should the line be drawn in terms of what is or isn’t profanity?
• What is or isn’t acceptable language to use?
• Are terms like WTH or WTF ok?
• What about people posting words that are caught by the profanity censor, or slightly altered to avoid the filter. Is it ok to post: The team played like *** or the team played like sh!t?
• What level of language should actually be filtered, where should the line be drawn between what is ‘acceptable’ to most people, and what is profane?

I think the language filters should be loosened up a little bit. People should not get e-mails from moderators asking to tone things down for saying things like WTF. It's commonly used internet jargan (sp?). People should be able to use the language they want, just so long as it isn't aimed at people, i.e. calling someone on the board a piece of sh!t. But, if I want to say "that call was horse sh!t" I should be able to say that I think. We have more than enough moderators to take things by a case by case basis and we also have a fancy little button we can click to report posts. As a former mod, I know how much people reporting posts helps because moderators cannot catch all of people's foul ups.

Originally Posted by tnedator

Sexually Explicit Images:

• What images shouldn’t be allowed?
• Nudity is a given, because this is not an adult-only site, but beyond that, where is the line drawn?
• Are pics or women in bra and panties (Victoria Secret models) or bikinis ok? What about men in speedos?
• A normal bikini bottom vs. a thong?

I think common sense should take over here. No nudity, girls spread eagle in undies, etc. The majority of us here are men, we appreciate a woman's beauty, and I see no problem with posting pictures of girls in bikini's, thongs (so long as the images aren't trashy), etc. If someone posts up a "hottest girl in the world" type thread and someone reports a post because an image might be 'too revealing', guess what, you can make the conscious decision not to enter that thread.

Originally Posted by tnedator

Duck Before Entering/Smack:
Should this forum be more loosely moderated than other forums? Should more flaming/personal attacks be allowed?

What's the point of talking smack when you're going to have someone looking over your shoulder telling you what you can and cannot say? Enough said.

Originally Posted by tnedator

Infraction Point System:

• Should we consider implementing an Infraction Point (IP) system, with publicly stated point values and suspension/banning/loss of privileges thresholds?
• While people coming over from BM have a bad taste in their mouth about how the IP system works, many other sites have successfully implemented IP systems, and it provides a means to avoid surprises to members in regards of where they stand and reduces the number of 'surprise' bannings.

IF an IP system does get implimented, it CANNOT be like it was at BM. It shouldn't be for piddly crap, but solid, rule breaking reasons. If someone calls someone a f***ing piece of sh!t or wishes death upon someone, etc, IP are necessary. People like that are the ones who will get banned anyway, lay 'em on.

Originally Posted by tnedator

Rules in general:

• Are the rules as they are written now, on the mark, too strict, too loose?

I haven't had any problems with the rules as they are now. I like the idea of going over them a couple times a year though. That way if a problem does come up it can be addressed.

Obscene Language/Profanity:

• Where should the line be drawn in terms of what is or isn’t profanity?
• What is or isn’t acceptable language to use?
• Are terms like WTH or WTF ok?
• What about people posting words that are caught by the profanity censor, or slightly altered to avoid the filter. Is it ok to post: The team played like *** or the team played like sh!t?
• What level of language should actually be filtered, where should the line be drawn between what is ‘acceptable’ to most people, and what is profane?
  
  I feel just typing *** is fine. But trying to get around the filter by typing Sh!t
  should not be allowed. If we aren't going to allow a ward then it Shouldn't be allowed in any readable form.
  
  

Sexually Explicit Images:

• What images shouldn’t be allowed?
• Nudity is a given, because this is not an adult-only site, but beyond that, where is the line drawn?
• Are pics or women in bra and panties (Victoria Secret models) or bikinis ok? What about men in speedos?
• A normal bikini bottom vs. a thong?

There are many different opinions about what is or isn’t acceptable, what is or isn’t sexually explicit. Where do you stand?


I don't think any photos of any team except the Broncos should be allowed! JK I think if you can see it on prime time TV or at a public place like the beach it should be allowed.



Duck Before Entering/Smack:
Should this forum be more loosely moderated than other forums? Should more flaming/personal attacks be allowed?

Yes, there should be more leniency in this forum. I hate seeing smack in the other threads. I go to BT to have intelligent conversation about the Broncos. I dont want to see anyone getting smacked there, for me it ruins the whole thread, But in the Duck Before Entering/Smack: forum that is what it is for. Those who want to post there take the risk of being smacked. I don't think profanity should be allowed but people should be able to say your an idiot or you must have an IQ of 2 stuff like that.


Banning:

• The time will come, when we have to start banning members. There are multiple issues to consider and methods that this can happen.
• The first issue related to banning is how strongly should the rules be enforced. Meaning, is it acceptable for people to repeatedly break the rules (posting profanity for instance) and simply have the moderators edit/delete posts, or should the rules be strictly enforced and those that break them should be suspended for x days?
  
  We must assume anyone that can write can learn. If a person is repeatedly braking the same rules they should be suspended then kicked off if they continue to do so. People aren't dumb, if they get told you can't type that they should stop. If they ignore the warnings it is because they don't care about anyone but themselves. If that is the case they should be kicked off
  
  
• At what point, in terms of breaking rules, should a person be suspended from the board. If they avoid the language filter once, or 10 times or 100 times?
  
  If they brake the same rule 3 times they should get suspended. If they come back and brake the same rule again they should get suspended for a longer time period. Then if they come back again and brake the same rule they should get the boot!
  
  Keep in mind that, it should be a clear case of braking the rules. If there is gray area then the member should be given the benefit of the doubt.
  
  Also, IMO no one should ever be banned for the posting of multiple threads no matter how much they do it. I know it gets tiresome and it causes more work for the moderators but IMO it is not a bad enough offence to get kicked off for
  
• Should banning be a formalized process, such as a system that might have two official warnings and then a suspension, possibly followed by a probation period, OR, should all bans be voted on by the 7 members advisory board, OR should suspensions/bans be determined by the moderators?
• On other message boards, few things have created as much controversy as banning, so this is something where we really need community feedback, in terms of how it should be done.

All banning should be by a vote of the moderators. This board has a personal feel to it and I don't want to be kicked off because of some formalized counting proses. I want my day in court so to speak. Real people can look at a situation and decide how bad the offense was and if it is deserving of a banning.


Infraction Point System:

• Should we consider implementing an Infraction Point (IP) system, with publicly stated point values and suspension/banning/loss of privileges thresholds?
• While people coming over from BM have a bad taste in their mouth about how the IP system works, many other sites have successfully implemented IP systems, and it provides a means to avoid surprises to members in regards of where they stand and reduces the number of 'surprise' bannings.

I got 3 infraction points on BM. The infraction was reversed after I talked to the moderator who gave me the infraction, What I hate about it is that it still shows up in my user page every time I log on. It says reversed but it is still there. I typed F****** and typed it just like that. I didn't know I couldn't do that. After getting the infraction I went and changed my post. I have never done it again and had never done it before. The only reason I did it in the first place was because I was repeating what someone had said to me about Plummer. Anyways, after learning it was against the rules I didn't do it again. So I guess it served it's purpose. It is also a good way for the moderators to keep track of how many offenses a member has committed. But I don't like the idea of taking privileges away from members.

At the same time, if the member is only causing trouble in one forum they should be suspended from that forum. Like the smack forum, Some people just don't take insults well, If they can't control themselves there that don't mean they can't in the other forums.




Any other Rules/moderation topics you would like to discuss

• Any other topics related to rules, moderation, banning or similar topics that weren't covered above.

I really haven't had any trouble and I haven't heard of any trouble, But I would like there to be extreme leniency on religion and political views and also, With the discussion about race.

Here is an example, Over at BM there was a thread about some kid being a white Reggie Bush. Someone said he was a good RB for a white guy. That didn't seem to be a problem but the discussion turned to why Blacks are faster and better RB's then Whites. As soon as that happened they locked the thread and deleted a lot of post's but left the the post that said, He is a good RB for a white guy. I thought it was a good discussion and one that most people are clearly off on. However beings it was about race we couldn't even discus it.

The bottom line is, there are more black RB's then there are White. There is either a reason for this or the NFL is just racist. I like to think we can have an intelligent conversation about race without people getting rude and or calling someone a racist just for bringing it up. Another example was in a thread about Larry Johnson and an interview he had on Inside the NFL. IMO what Larry Johnson said was wrong but we couldn't discus it because it was about his racist remarks.

I do not want to get into what Larry Johnson said or about the white Reggie Bush in this thread But if we have comments/Ideas about these sort of threads I think we should voice our opinions.

My opinion is that they should be allowed. However I don't think calling another member a racist should be. That is a personal attack on someones caricature.

Originally Posted by SeeingRed

I think the language filters should be loosened up a little bit. People should not get e-mails from moderators asking to tone things down for saying things like WTF. It's commonly used internet jargan (sp?). People should be able to use the language they want, just so long as it isn't aimed at people, i.e. calling someone on the board a piece of sh!t. But, if I want to say "that call was horse sh!t" I should be able to say that I think. We have more than enough moderators to take things by a case by case basis and we also have a fancy little button we can click to report posts. As a former mod, I know how much people reporting posts helps because moderators cannot catch all of people's foul ups.


I think common sense should take over here. No nudity, girls spread eagle in undies, etc. The majority of us here are men, we appreciate a woman's beauty, and I see no problem with posting pictures of girls in bikini's, thongs (so long as the images aren't trashy), etc. If someone posts up a "hottest girl in the world" type thread and someone reports a post because an image might be 'too revealing', guess what, you can make the conscious decision not to enter that thread.



What's the point of talking smack when you're going to have someone looking over your shoulder telling you what you can and cannot say? Enough said.




IF an IP system does get implimented, it CANNOT be like it was at BM. It shouldn't be for piddly crap, but solid, rule breaking reasons. If someone calls someone a f***ing piece of sh!t or wishes death upon someone, etc, IP are necessary. People like that are the ones who will get banned anyway, lay 'em on.

What Yo said.

One more thing, The older the board is and the longer the member tunure becomes, it will easier to tell when someone is breaking the rules. With personal attacks.

But if you tell a long time member/freind to kiss your @$$, or wtf you freakin retard etc........ I do not think that is bad. I like to bust balls, and have the same done to me.

Originally Posted by claymore

One more thing, The older the board is and the longer the member tunure becomes, it will easier to tell when someone is breaking the rules. With personal attacks.

But if you tell a long time member/freind to kiss your @$$, or wtf you freakin retard etc........ I do not think that is bad. I like to bust balls, and have the same done to me.

Nice post, retard

I agree with SeeingRed...nice post, well said.

Originally Posted by slim

Nice post, retard

I agree with SeeingRed...nice post, well said.

LOL, that was over my first cup of coffee.... ****

Cussing :as long as profanity isn't aimed at another member...it's ok.

Pictures: no "cash & prizes" shown then it's ok. You just can't see their "situation" so to say.

banning procedures: very loose. maybe a points system but points should not be given for profanity

Originally Posted by SeeingRed

I think the language filters should be loosened up a little bit. People should not get e-mails from moderators asking to tone things down for saying things like WTF. It's commonly used internet jargan (sp?). People should be able to use the language they want, just so long as it isn't aimed at people, i.e. calling someone on the board a piece of sh!t. But, if I want to say "that call was horse sh!t" I should be able to say that I think. We have more than enough moderators to take things by a case by case basis and we also have a fancy little button we can click to report posts. As a former mod, I know how much people reporting posts helps because moderators cannot catch all of people's foul ups.


I think common sense should take over here. No nudity, girls spread eagle in undies, etc. The majority of us here are men, we appreciate a woman's beauty, and I see no problem with posting pictures of girls in bikini's, thongs (so long as the images aren't trashy), etc. If someone posts up a "hottest girl in the world" type thread and someone reports a post because an image might be 'too revealing', guess what, you can make the conscious decision not to enter that thread.



What's the point of talking smack when you're going to have someone looking over your shoulder telling you what you can and cannot say? Enough said.




IF an IP system does get implimented, it CANNOT be like it was at BM. It shouldn't be for piddly crap, but solid, rule breaking reasons. If someone calls someone a f***ing piece of sh!t or wishes death upon someone, etc, IP are necessary. People like that are the ones who will get banned anyway, lay 'em on.

Regarding the Smack especially, I think that forum should be filled with freedoms not found anywhere else on the board. I could not agree more. People should be able to curse, slam, humiliate, etc.....as it's not a forum for the meek and mild mannered. If the meek and mild mannered roam within that forum and make whiney noises....then THEY should be reprimanded, not the ones posting in the forum that's meant to be extremely blunt.

Originally Posted by nj10

Cussing :as long as profanity isn't aimed at another member...it's ok.

If we allow profanity in any form we have to make the board for adults only.
It is pretty classless and selfish to be posting profanity on a board that a 12 year old could read.

Originally Posted by nj10

banning procedures: very loose. maybe a points system but points should not be given for profanity

If we are going to make a no profanity rule it should be enforced to the point you could get banned for it. If a member can't get banned for braking a rule the rule needs to be dumped!

It seems a lot of the members here have no problem with profanity, I don't have a problem with it either except for the fact kids get on these boards. That being said, maybe we should have an adults only forum where you could post anything you want including nudity?

Members would have the choice to either post there or not.

Did someone say nudity...

I dont see a need for profanity, but have no problem with ****. **** is just as descriptive as the real curse word.

I also do not want a bunch of nude pics. I love the stuff, but it is easy to access outside of here.

But, I have never met a 12 year old kid on any of the forums................. Mostly married men that cant go to bars.........

Originally Posted by claymore

I dont see a need for profanity, but have no problem with ****. **** is just as descriptive as the real curse word.

I also do not want a bunch of nude pics. I love the stuff, but it is easy to access outside of here.

But, I have never met a 12 year old kid on any of the forums................. Mostly married men that cant go to bars.........

I don't know about 12, but we do have some that are in the 14 range, and are great contributors to the board.

I joined Broncosfreak at age 15 (I'm nearly 20)...believe me...They already know cuss words

Originally Posted by nj10

I joined Broncosfreak at age 15 (I'm nearly 20)...believe me...They already know cuss words

Your right they do, does that mean we should contribute to a bad thing?