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Thread: 2025 off-season thread

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    Default 2025 off-season thread

    We can start separate threads for the draft and free agency if y'all want, but with like eight of us still posting, I figure one catch-all thread is probably sufficient. In any case, here we go. For starters, I believe we'll likely have little to no turnover on the coaching staff, which is a good thing if it happens. Continuity is important. I suppose VJ could still get poached, but it doesn't look like he's getting a ton of interest. I think he's probably going to be back, which is fine by me. Dude did a hell of a job this year. Looks like we'll need a new ST coordinator-- I'm confident Payton can find someone capable.

    We'll have more or less our complete stock of draft picks this year, including #20 in the first round. According to this article, we should have around $35 million in cap space heading into the new year. Looks like our FAs will include DJ Jones, Wilson and Stidham, Small Jordan, Javonte, Riley Dixon, Cody Barton, and Stern Nads. And St Nik Bonito will be eligible for a contract extension, which should be a priority, IMO. Dude was a force this year. I would also bring back Dixon, he was really solid. DJ Jones can go, dude's a warm body. Sadly, I think it's also time to move on from Javonte. Good dude, and he was a blast to watch his rookie year, but it just doesn't look like he'll ever get back to that form. I wouldn't mind keeping Barton and Stern Nads around on the cheap, but they're obviously replaceable, and we could really use an upgrade there. Of course, that guy could be Alex Singleton, who should hopefully be ready to go by the start of camp, and I'm still holding out hope that Drew Sanders will come in healthy and contribute this year. Guy's got all the talent if they can get him right. If they finally decide to invest in the position, Dre Greenlaw would be a fantastic fit. Dude is really fast and athletic, and is about as good as you can expect to get in coverage from that position. Denzel Perryman is another FA who could upgrade that spot. DT is a little tougher. Javon Hargrave is going to be on the market. He's maybe not quite the difference-maker he was in Philly, but he's still pretty beastly, and would give us a nasty inside rush alongside Zach Allen. Javon Kinlaw or Jerry Tillery would be solid reclamation projects if you could get one of them for a reasonable deal. I also wouldn't mind spending a high pick here. We also have depth needs in the secondary, though those may not be big priorities. We could really use a third playable safety, whether it's a backup for Locke or an upgrade at starter. I wish like hell they'd bring Justin Simmons back, but they probably won't. Jevon Holland from Miami is a playmaker who'd add some juice to an already good unit if they want to throw some dollars at it. Honey Badger's getting a bit long in the tooth, but dude does have some big play instincts, and brings leadership and attitude. This is a spot they could look at in the middle rounds of the draft as well. We also have a crying need for one more outside corner who can keep us competitive if Surtain or Moss miss time, because we all saw how badly the defense regressed when they weren't both out there. There are some quality options in FA (Chavarious Ward, Carlton Davis, DJ Reed, Byron Murphy), but I doubt we'll spend the coin for one of those guys to push Moss to the nickel with as well as he played this year. Could be another spot to target in the middle of the draft.

    I'd bring back Zach Wilson at the right price, but backup QB isn't a high priority IMO. What IS a top priority is finding a RB who can get the run game going. It's just too critical an aspect of a team to let the position be manned by stiffs like it was this year. Finding a guy who can make a difference there is our single easist avenue to improve the team, in my estimation. If Payton parted on good terms with Mickey Loomis, we should make a call to NO and see if we can pick up Alvin Kamara on the cheap. He's obviously the perfect back for Payton's scheme, and he showed this year that he still has some gas left in the tank. If Aaron Jones stays in Minnesota like I expect, there's not much available in free agency that moves the needle. Dobbins will most likely re-sign in Sandy Eggo. I'd be down to take a flyer on Nick Chubb on a prove it deal if he leaves Cleveland, but you'd have to draft one as well. Jaylen Warren might be a low key signing as a guy who'd fit really well in the pass catching role, but as always, the draft is probably the best place to find a RB. Only problem is you need to get a guy who comes in with some ability in pass pro, otherwise Payton will just bury him on the bench the way he just did with Estime. Tight end is an obvious, crying need, and one that will almost have to be addressed in the draft, because this FA class is barren of talent. I hate spending high picks on the position due to the extremely high bust rate, but we have zero functional guys there right now. Our production from the position was non-existent, we're basically just playing ten on eleven with the bums we currently have. Could use another playmaker at wideout as well, but I'd honestly be content to let that one wait a year. Mimms' emergence was big, I'd be okay giving Vele and Franklin another season to develop. A true slot receiver would add a different dimension to this offense, though. We'll see. Adding some capable depth on the OL would be big, but I won't hold my breath there.

    Alright, discuss amongst yourselves.
    “When we do find that guy, we’ve got to have the continuity on the offensive side to where we can train him and develop him and get him there. This is our fourth offense in probably three or four years. Quarterbacks need to be developed. You don’t find one ready-made. We got to have a solid system in place for when we do go after whatever guy it may be, a young guy or a trade or whatnot.”
    - John Elway

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    Kamara's contract is not tradeable pre-June 1. They just extended him, so it is unlikely he gets traded. Carr is likely to be cut and the Saints will likely do a rebuilding year since there is no way that roster can compete in its current form.

    There seems to be competition with the Bears for Rizzi at ST coordinator. Hard to say where he ends up. Ben Johnson seems to want Dennis Allen as his DC, and it is unclear if he will get Rizzi will follow Allen or if he will follow Sean.

    Taysom Hill as a June 1 cut saves the Saints $10 million in cap. Seems logical that they cut him. This makes the Broncos a logical destination by default.
    Von Miller will likely be a cap casualty by the Bills. Saves them $8.4 million pre-June 1, or $17.4 million as a June 1 cut. The Broncos are a logical destination for him, given his history with the team and previous time playing for VJ.
    Isaiah Simmons is a free agent. At this point, he is a complete bust, but maybe VJ takes a flier on him since he was decent for him in Arizona. He didn't play much with the Giants since he switched to LB, but I imagine it was an adjustment from safety.

    Defensive free agent market is hard to read right now until the coaching carousel has settled a bit more. Guys like Kinlaw may follow Saleh wherever he ends up, for instance.

    Offensively, there is going to be a massive bidding war for Higgins. I expect Godwin to also get paid. Godwin seems a more likely target for SP.

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    Godwin is definitely a guy who would fit in that slot role, and he can also play outside. I would expect Tampa to do everything they can to hold onto him, but he'd certainly be a great pickup if we could get him. Pricey, and not our top need IMO, but it's an addition that would certainly give the passing game a needed jolt. He's a name I'll have an eye on for sure. Will also be interesting to see if New Orleans finally pivots to rebuilding mode. Could a vet like Cam Jordan or Demario Davis get released? Either one would be a fantastic pickup. I've always loved Simmons' potential, and wouldn't mind acquiring him at the right price, but odds are he is who he is at this point.
    “When we do find that guy, we’ve got to have the continuity on the offensive side to where we can train him and develop him and get him there. This is our fourth offense in probably three or four years. Quarterbacks need to be developed. You don’t find one ready-made. We got to have a solid system in place for when we do go after whatever guy it may be, a young guy or a trade or whatnot.”
    - John Elway

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    That injury was nasty though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    Godwin is definitely a guy who would fit in that slot role, and he can also play outside. I would expect Tampa to do everything they can to hold onto him, but he'd certainly be a great pickup if we could get him. Pricey, and not our top need IMO, but it's an addition that would certainly give the passing game a needed jolt. He's a name I'll have an eye on for sure. Will also be interesting to see if New Orleans finally pivots to rebuilding mode. Could a vet like Cam Jordan or Demario Davis get released? Either one would be a fantastic pickup. I've always loved Simmons' potential, and wouldn't mind acquiring him at the right price, but odds are he is who he is at this point.
    There's no YAC threats in the offense right now besides Mims. Sutton has the traffic catches, but he's not really a YAC guy. Godwin and Diggs markets will depend on their medical and I don't necessarily think this year there will be an immediate push for day 1 free agents. However, teams will be rightfully hesitant to toss $20 million+ a year at either of them, so this makes things more realistic for a team like the Broncos to jump into the market. For a guy seeking to rehab their value, signing with an offensive oriented team makes sense especially where there isn't much of any positional threats. The trade market seems more likely than the FA market, but a big name threat like Metcalf, Tyreek Hill, or Garett Wilson is going to cost. The other thing that could push the Broncos into the Godwin or even Higgins market is if the Chargers make a play for either.

    The teams currently slated to be over the cap or against the cap are the Saints, Browns, Seahawks, Dolphins, Falcons, Bills, Cowboys, Bucs, Texans, and Chiefs. The Saints and Browns are in such positions that the gymnastics they have to perform every year to field a cap compliant team will inevitably catch up to them. The 49ers will soon be up there too if they extend Purdy as planned. The Browns have no obvious cuts or trade candidates, but the Saints certainly have a bunch of cuts coming and it seems logical to project them to project many of them to come to Denver.

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    Probably never happen-- but the idea of Cam Jordan playing next to Zach Allen makes me feel funny in mah pants!
    “When we do find that guy, we’ve got to have the continuity on the offensive side to where we can train him and develop him and get him there. This is our fourth offense in probably three or four years. Quarterbacks need to be developed. You don’t find one ready-made. We got to have a solid system in place for when we do go after whatever guy it may be, a young guy or a trade or whatnot.”
    - John Elway

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    Probably never happen-- but the idea of Cam Jordan playing next to Zach Allen makes me feel funny in mah pants!
    Rizzi the ST coordinator and Hill would be exciting additions. I think even with the Wilson cap space clearing, there won't be a push for big fish unless it is to stop the Chargers.

    I don't think we will be in on pass rushers unless it is Von Miller (since it has the added benefit of helping the marketing department). If I had to guess: Cam Jordan goes to Chicago if he is a free agent to follow Dennis Allen, Khalil Mack returns to the Chargers or goes to Philadelphia to follow his old DC Vic Fangio, and Von comes home. Of course, Von or Khalil to Chicago makes sense, ditto for Khalil back to Chicago or Von to Philly.

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    This Penn State TE that everyone is enamored with - every time I see him it looks like he should be playing fullback with a neck roll - is he really dynamic enough to take him in the 1st round? Seems like there are a lot of TE mistakes in the first round. I haven't seen enough to know - but he doesn't really pass the initial eye test for me. Who is grinding the tape? @MObronc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    This Penn State TE that everyone is enamored with - every time I see him it looks like he should be playing fullback with a neck roll - is he really dynamic enough to take him in the 1st round? Seems like there are a lot of TE mistakes in the first round. I haven't seen enough to know - but he doesn't really pass the initial eye test for me. Who is grinding the tape? @MObronc
    We desperately need a capable contributor at TE. . . but man, I HATE spending a first round pick at that position. Looking back at all the first round TEs taken over the past fifteen years, it's not exactly very inspiring before Bowers.

    2023 - Dalton Kincaid
    2021 - Kyle Pitts
    2019 - Noah Fant, TJ Hockenson
    2018 - Hayden Hurst
    2017 - OJ Howard, Evan Engram, David Njokou
    2014 - Eric Ebron
    2013 - Tyler Eifort
    2011 - Germaine Gresham
    2009 - Brandon Pettigrew

    I believe Njokou is the only one who even made it to a second contract wit the team that drafted him, and he's the definition of mediocre. Not one guy on that list is half as good as fifth rounder George Kittle. Historically, it's just a wasted pick. I don't know much about Warren, but I did watch him drop two or three passes that hit him right in the hands in their bowl game, including one in the back of the end zone. I'd be extremely leery of spending a high pick on him. Throw a couple mid-round darts at it over the next few years, see if Payton and his coaching staff can develop a talented project the way they did with Jimmy Graham. Or see if you can pick up Pitts at a somewhat reasonable cost as a reclamation project. Or both.
    “When we do find that guy, we’ve got to have the continuity on the offensive side to where we can train him and develop him and get him there. This is our fourth offense in probably three or four years. Quarterbacks need to be developed. You don’t find one ready-made. We got to have a solid system in place for when we do go after whatever guy it may be, a young guy or a trade or whatnot.”
    - John Elway

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    We desperately need a capable contributor at TE. . . but man, I HATE spending a first round pick at that position. Looking back at all the first round TEs taken over the past fifteen years, it's not exactly very inspiring before Bowers.

    2023 - Dalton Kincaid
    2021 - Kyle Pitts
    2019 - Noah Fant, TJ Hockenson
    2018 - Hayden Hurst
    2017 - OJ Howard, Evan Engram, David Njokou
    2014 - Eric Ebron
    2013 - Tyler Eifort
    2011 - Germaine Gresham
    2009 - Brandon Pettigrew

    I believe Njokou is the only one who even made it to a second contract wit the team that drafted him, and he's the definition of mediocre. Not one guy on that list is half as good as fifth rounder George Kittle. Historically, it's just a wasted pick. I don't know much about Warren, but I did watch him drop two or three passes that hit him right in the hands in their bowl game, including one in the back of the end zone. I'd be extremely leery of spending a high pick on him. Throw a couple mid-round darts at it over the next few years, see if Payton and his coaching staff can develop a talented project the way they did with Jimmy Graham. Or see if you can pick up Pitts at a somewhat reasonable cost as a reclamation project. Or both.
    I was absolutely positive that Kyle Pitts and Vernon Davis were can't miss prospects - Davis never lived up to expectations, and thus far Pitts hasn't either... And those guys were off the charts in all the measurables... Just saying that it's an inexact science and I tend to agree with you - couple that with the fact that he kind of looks like Adam Trautman more than George Kittle out there - and you can miss me with him in the 1st round.

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    Warren is a more athletic version of Bowers. He's the real deal. He would flourish in Paytons offense.


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    Pitts has shown his potential. But then he was the victim of bad/inconsistent QB play...

    2021 w/Matt Ryan @QB - 68rec 1,026yds 1TD
    *Pro Bowl as a rookie*

    Ryan traded to Indy

    2022 w/Marcus Mariota (didn't finish the season)@QB - 28rec 356yds 2TDs

    2023 w/Desmond Ridder (didn't finish the season)@QB - 53rec 667yds 3TDs

    2024 w/Kirk Cousins @QB (didn't finish the season) 47rec 602yds 4TDs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny View Post
    Pitts has shown his potential. But then he was the victim of bad/inconsistent QB play...

    2021 w/Matt Ryan @QB - 68rec 1,026yds 1TD
    *Pro Bowl as a rookie*

    Ryan traded to Indy

    2022 w/Marcus Mariota (didn't finish the season)@QB - 28rec 356yds 2TDs

    2023 w/Desmond Ridder (didn't finish the season)@QB - 53rec 667yds 3TDs

    2024 w/Kirk Cousins @QB (didn't finish the season) 47rec 602yds 4TDs
    Nah, man, I watch the games. There was a reason Art Smith played Jonnu Smith over him.

    Not saying Pitts is a total bust, he's obviously still got some value - just saying that I think you're playing a dangerous game investing a 1st in a TE. I'd much rather grab Jeanty if they were both sitting there.

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    Pitts also suffered an MCL/PCL tear during the '22 season, which undoubtedly also impacted his performance-- and he hasn't ever gotten back to his former level. I'd still make a call and see if he's available. Sometimes guys just need a change of scenery, and Payton's a better offensive coach than anyone Pitts has played for. Buff, I agree about Jeanty. I'm not typically a big fan of 1st round RBs either, but I'll take a guy with Jeanty's skills over the risk inherent in making a big investment at TE. Seriously, what are there, like three or four true difference-makers at that position in the whole league? A good RB might touch the ball 20-25 times per game, it's probably closer to 5 for the vast majority of TEs. I know they're not great long term investments due to the typical shelf life, but the good ones do generate a ton of production for cheap on that first contract. I'd rather draft a hoss OL or DL than either, but gimme Jeanty over a TE all day.
    “When we do find that guy, we’ve got to have the continuity on the offensive side to where we can train him and develop him and get him there. This is our fourth offense in probably three or four years. Quarterbacks need to be developed. You don’t find one ready-made. We got to have a solid system in place for when we do go after whatever guy it may be, a young guy or a trade or whatnot.”
    - John Elway

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    Actually, does anyone know if Jeanty can block? If he can't, not much point spending a high pick on him so Payton can park him on the bench all year.
    “When we do find that guy, we’ve got to have the continuity on the offensive side to where we can train him and develop him and get him there. This is our fourth offense in probably three or four years. Quarterbacks need to be developed. You don’t find one ready-made. We got to have a solid system in place for when we do go after whatever guy it may be, a young guy or a trade or whatnot.”
    - John Elway

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