Thread: GOAT defensive players

Aaron Donald retired and people are saying he's among the top 3 defensive players in the history of the NFL. He was obviously a great player, but I can't think of 1 iconic play he's ever made.

At any rate it got me wondering where Von would rank. Is he top 20? Top 10? Top 5? Top 3?

Lawrence Taylor
Deion Sanders
Reggie White
Bruce Smith
Ed Reed
JJ Watt
Troy Palomalu
Ray Lewis
*old people*

Deacon Jones
Dick Butkus
Mike Singletary
Gino Marchetti
Mean Joe Green
Ronnie MF Lott
Champ Bailey
Michael Strahan
Darrell Green

And take Polamalu out. I can see Donald in the top ten. I'd have a hard time putting Von in the top twenty. Way too many edge rushers who had really comparable careers. Like, can you say that he's definitely better than Julius Peppers, Jason Taylor, Dwight Freeney, Chris Doleman, T-Sizzle, Richard Dent, Derrick Thomas, and Jared Allen? His prime years were truly elite, but he didn't have enough of them. Never won a DPOY, and he didn't have enough first team All Pro selections. It's too bad we didn't get Ware a couple years earlier, his influence on Von can't be underestimated.

Originally Posted by aberdien

Aaron Donald retired and people are saying he's among the top 3 defensive players in the history of the NFL. He was obviously a great player, but I can't think of 1 iconic play he's ever made.

At any rate it got me wondering where Von would rank. Is he top 20? Top 10? Top 5? Top 3?

Lawrence Taylor
Deion Sanders
Reggie White
Bruce Smith
Ed Reed
JJ Watt
Troy Palomalu
Ray Lewis
*old people*

You need rethink Aaron Donald. He is right there with Reggie White and I was a huge RW fan growing up. Aaron Donald's 111 sacks in 10 years from the interior DL and doing that while weighing 280lbs is one of the most mind blowing stats in history. Factor in he did that in an era that does everything in its power to stop a QB from getting sacked, especially when coming from an interior spot (all the QB has to do to avoid a sack from an interior DL in today's game is sprint 4 yards to either side and throw the ball out of bounds)

I will die on this hill, Aaron Donald is a starter at DT on the NFL's all-time list. He just is.

Yeah. Dude was a game-wrecker. You don't win three DPOYs without being an ultimate badass. I think he's for sure the starting three-technique on the All Time team. Joe Green is the one-tech. I've watched Donald just obliterate double teams like they were barely there. Nobody in the modern era of fooseball changed game plans more than he did.

Originally Posted by dogfish

Deacon Jones
Dick Butkus
Mike Singletary
Gino Marchetti
Mean Joe Green
Ronnie MF Lott
Champ Bailey
Michael Strahan
Darrell Green

And take Polamalu out. I can see Donald in the top ten. I'd have a hard time putting Von in the top twenty. Way too many edge rushers who had really comparable careers. Like, can you say that he's definitely better than Julius Peppers, Jason Taylor, Dwight Freeney, Chris Doleman, T-Sizzle, Richard Dent, Derrick Thomas, and Jared Allen? His prime years were truly elite, but he didn't have enough of them. Never won a DPOY, and he didn't have enough first team All Pro selections. It's too bad we didn't get Ware a couple years earlier, his influence on Von can't be underestimated.

If you look at his playoff stats, you'd have to say yes right?

Originally Posted by aberdien

If you look at his playoff stats, you'd have to say yes right?

I would say yes, Von's SB50 run puts him ahead of all of those dudes except DT. Von's SB50 run was such a Unicorn, can we count the number of times a defensive player was the impetus for his team winning a SB championship through an entire playoff run (not just one great SB game) on one hand? That was a legendary feat that separates him from everyone on that list aside from DT.

Originally Posted by aberdien

If you look at his playoff stats, you'd have to say yes right?

I wouldn't. He had two amazing games, it's not enough. Charles Haley has five rings. Von has the same number as Strahan, Freeney, Dent, Suggs, and Ware-- who was pretty gawddamn awesome himself over that playoff run. Donk fans will never be objective on Von, and I ain't mad at it. I love the dude, too. In a broader historical perspective, I don't really see it. He's a clear Hall of Famer and a franchise legend, but I can't quite put him in that ultra-rarified air. JMO, obviously.

Originally Posted by dogfish

Deacon Jones
Dick Butkus
Mike Singletary
Gino Marchetti
Mean Joe Green
Ronnie MF Lott
Champ Bailey
Michael Strahan
Darrell Green

And take Polamalu out. I can see Donald in the top ten. I'd have a hard time putting Von in the top twenty. Way too many edge rushers who had really comparable careers. Like, can you say that he's definitely better than Julius Peppers, Jason Taylor, Dwight Freeney, Chris Doleman, T-Sizzle, Richard Dent, Derrick Thomas, and Jared Allen? His prime years were truly elite, but he didn't have enough of them. Never won a DPOY, and he didn't have enough first team All Pro selections. It's too bad we didn't get Ware a couple years earlier, his influence on Von can't be underestimated.

Troy was on par with Reed in terms of impact, and is the GOAT SS…

Pick out of the top three GOATs and compile to your choosing.

CB - Deion, Woodson, Blount. Those are the three best CBs ever. Personally I'm a Deion guy.

SS - We could talk about the other guys here, but no one compares to Troy P, who was the biggest game wrecker of his generation. The fact that he was a SS who was elite at coverage is absurd.

FS - Ed Reed, Atwater, Lott. I'll take Lott, even though he became a FS after he fell off as CB.

ILB - Ray Lewis, Lambert, Keuchly. No disrespect to anyone who came before the 70's, but unless you're friggen Jim Brown it's hard to rank you highly, at least to this degree. And there will come a time when you can't really rank the 70's and 80's guys that highly either. I think we all know it's Ray Lewis.

OLB/DE/Edge Rusher. Reggie White is my pick for overall defensive GOAT. I think he's one of the best run stoppers ever, and one of the best pass rushers ever. Not sure if there's another player we could make that claim for, at least out on the edge. Bonus points because he did line up on the inside as well. J.J. Watt has to be in the conversation, too. People won't like it, but I'm a fact guy. T.J. Watt is already a top ten defensive player ever; it's the hardest era to get sacks in due to rules, offensive talent, and how fast Qbs get the ball out of their hand. He's led the league in sacks three times, and that's never been done. He should also have three DPOYs as Garrett's lame ass robbed him this year, and Donald took one from him that should have been edged to T.J. Watt. I would actually make the case for Von belonging, though. Von had double digit sacks as a DE and OLB. Only other guy that comes to mind doing that is DeMarcus Ware. Bruce Smith has to be on that list for contention, too.

Lawrence Taylor was a monster. But he also got a ton of sacks against tight ends. Yes, he's the reason why offenses changed how they blocked elite pass rushers, but still...tight ends. He also doesn't have as many eye-popping years people might think. The more you look at his career and step away from the mythos, the easier it is to see how he was great, but not as great as advertised. People push back on this all the time, but mostly it's just throwing around a bunch of stupid stories and ignoring his production. It took him four years to hit ten sacks. That's not great. He only has three seasons with 15+ sacks. But his peak was ungodly, won a SB, Parcells defense, New York Media. Please do not @ me over this Lawrence Taylor stuff. I will take your lunch.

DL - Sapp, Donald, Randle. Sapp's name has faded because he's a dumbass. Randle would have been a true star had he played...almost anywhere else. Donald is a monster.

In my lists I do put preference towards pass rushers.

If I'm doing top five ever: Deion Sanders, Reggie White, J.J. Watt, Donald, Ray Lewis. Drop Lewis if it's a Rushmore thing.

I would take Champ or Revis over Woodson. Woodson never had a stretch where he was a dominant, shutdown corner. His best career stats came when he played mostly covering the slot and doing blitzes. He is an elite HOF player, but for the position just not in the same tier as Champ and Revis.

I'd take Singletary and Butkus over Lambert. I'd take Champ over Blount and Woodson.

Well…you smell!!!!

Originally Posted by King87

Well…you smell!!!!

I know, I just don't care. It helps keep people away from me, I prefer that.

Originally Posted by UnderArmour

I would take Champ or Revis over Woodson. Woodson never had a stretch where he was a dominant, shutdown corner. His best career stats came when he played mostly covering the slot and doing blitzes. He is an elite HOF player, but for the position just not in the same tier as Champ and Revis.

He is the only player the Steelers regret leaving in FA. And from my research he did cover number ones. I think you’re conflating some of his later years.

I never thought of Woodson as a lockdown type CB. Ballhawk? Yes. I think, and I don't have the strongest recollection of his career of I'm being honest but it seems like I remember him as a really rare and good mix of coverage skills tackling ability and aggression. It kinda seems like I remember liking him more when he moved to Safety, almost like he was more of a safety playing CB anyway. But I'm old and have put my brain cells through Hell. He might have been a damn wide receiver.

Where am I? What happened?