Thread: Don't trade PS2. Don't suggest trading him. Your hot take is bad.

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

Drafted QB's:

Patrick Mahomes - #10

Josh Allen - #7

Justin Herbert - #6

Lamar Jackson - #32

Jalen Hurts - #53

Dak Prescott - #135

Aaron Rodgers - #24

Tua Tagovailoa - #5

Tom Brady - #199

Deshaun Watson - #12

Kirk Cousins - #102

Ryan Tannehill - #8

Russell Wilson - #75

Geno Smith - #39

Daniel Jones - #6

Justin Fields - #11

Jimmy Garropolo - #62

Davis Mills - #67

Derek Carr -#36

Mac Jones - #15

Sam Ehlinger - #218

Kenny Pickett - #20

Andy Dalton - #35

I will never support a tank. I've never given up in my own life, and don't hope or wish them to either.

Tanking isn’t giving up.

Originally Posted by dogfish

The Rams were 4-12 in 2016, then cleaned house and did a complete rebuild with a new coach and #1 overall QB. Took them a minute, but it worked.

Also, there's no guaranteed path to a title. It's about giving yourself the best odds to be in the hunt year after year, and it starts with getting a great QB-- most of whom are drafted in the top ten.

One example? Nice!

Originally Posted by aberdien

One example? Nice!

Uhhhhh, I guess you didn't see the other posts?

Originally Posted by King87

Abe phrases it as winning a SB and not "who tanked and built a strong organization again," not out of arguing in poor faith, but because he's pretty stupid.

The Rams have recently done it.

The Colts became SB contenders with Andrew Luck.

You can also throw in just about any team who had to shed a bunch of expensive players and pay the piper on salary cap hell.

Shit, the Bengals had tons of roster turnover leading up to and after Burrow.

The point is people keep talking about rebuild this, rebuild that, it's like "rebuild" doesn't even mean anything these days. What's the definition?

Tanking and then winning a SB does not have a high rate of success.

People complain about winning games for no reason, people complain about getting a Wildcard spot, etc. It's clear that winning SBs is the measure of success - Jaded stated this outright in one of these threads. If that's the goal, tanking has rarely led to winning Superbowls.

Now, that does not mean I am advocating for the Broncos to sign Ryan Tannehill, as some bad faith people would say. I am all on board with drafting a gd QBOTF - or at least trying to - and I am not at all interested in signing some retread.

The Broncos are in this position because the FO has consistently chosen the most mediocre ass QBs for the last decade. That's the only reason. We've had a variety of solid players on offense and defense during the last decade, but nobody wants to come play for a QB black hole. The right move is to have better judgment picking QBs and stop looking for the quick fix.

Either way, tanking has not proven to be any more effective than signing free agent quarterbacks, or drafting Mr. Irrelevant in terms of reaching the SB.

Originally Posted by dogfish

The Texans tanked two seasons ago, and got CJ Stroud last year. What's worse, having a couple really down years (when you were already a bad team anyway), or sucking for a decade and trying to decide whether to painfully overdraft Bo Nix, or hope Michael Penix and his gimp knees and shoulders falls to the third?

Seriously Abe, who's the last team to win a championship doing things the way the Donkeys have been? The answer is no one, it's never happened.

Texans are trending up, but people here complained about the prospect of getting a WC because "we'll lose anyway and have a worse draft pick." So let's not get ahead of ourselves. They tanked hard af, so we'll see if it works out for them in the next few years.

The last team to reach a championship doing what the Broncos have done at QB (ie, signing free agent QBs or drafting mid-late rounders):

Bucs (signing Tom, Brad f'in Johnson lmao), Eagles (Wentz/Foles drama), 49ers (mid-late round QBs), Rams (signing free agent QB Matty Staffy), Broncos (signing Pey Pey), Cardinals (signing Kurt Warner), Seahawks (drafting mid round Rustle; free agent Matt Hasselbeck), Panthers (Jake Delhomme!), Raiders (Rich Gannon), Ravens (Trent Dilfer lololol), Giants (Kerry Collins).

The last team to reach a SB tanking:

Rams
Bengals

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Moral of the story:

You can tank and suck ass and hope that you build a team and find a HOF Quarterback in the draft, or you can hover around .500 and hope you find a gawdly QB in free agency. The key is choosing a not shitty QB. The Broncos have not done a good job at that. The Broncos method has been done before and been successful - with a much higher rate of success than straight up tanking - but when the people at the top are choosing bad QBs it fails. They just need to stop choosing shitty QBs, whether it be in the 1st round, 7th round, or free agency IDGAF.

You’re an idiot, so I didn’t read that. I’m also presuming you don’t know what a rebuild actually entails.

Go walk into traffic.

I shan’t exercise!

Hey Abe, now do dynasties and quit having such small goals. **** winning A Superbowl. I want a dynasty. I literally, and this will sound insane, don't give a crap about one more Lombardi trophy. I'm 47. I've seen a mini-dynasty and a one off. Loved em' both. Now I watch KC win 3 out of 5 or whatever the **** and I say. That's what I want.

The only way to do that is young QB. I suppose it could be done with a young FA or trade, but if he was so good why would he be in that situation. So, the only way to realistically build a dynasty is by drafting a QB and odds say to get him with as high a pick as possible. So that's what I want.

I know it's selfish but I'm fine with it. Also, if you build a team trying to become a dynasty vs signing an old FA QB to go after that one caught in time moment of a team, you're going end up building a really good team along the way. SP's Saints are the perfect example of this. They were trying to put a dynasty together, it didn't happen but they had years and years of playoff success and a SB championship. If at the end of the day that's what we get (a playoff team that wouldn't be a shocker to see in the SB)Id be stoked, it wouldn't be the "Dynasty" I am craving but the attempt would satisfy me. Another one of these oh look we have pretty good team let's find the dude 5 years away from retirement that we can scrape a Lombardi trophy with, does nothing for me. And, those odds as bad as building the Saints micro-Dynasty type team anyway, so go for the better longer term outcome.

Originally Posted by dogfish

Congratulations on your moral superiority. . . and the continuing sub-.500 seasons.



I'm f***ing with you. . . mostly.

But seriously, Denver has won three Super Bowls. All three of them came with QBs drafted #1 overall. We all know the draft is an inexact science, absolutely no one thinks a high draft status brings ANY sort of guarantee about a guy's future. But look at the guys who have won playoff games in recent years. You're going to find an awful lot of Mahomes (#10), Burrow (#1), Allen (#7), Lawrence (#1), Goff (#1), Stroud (#2), and this year even Baker Mayfield (#1). Even Lamar and Hurts were top 50-ish picks. And yes, Brock Purdy. Dude wouldn't win five games here. How many playoff games did Andy Dalton win? Kirk Cousins is the Cadillac of game manager QBs, dude has one playoff win in his life. Hawg is correct, it's about maximizing your odds vs. just hoping for a miracle. If you're all-in on trying to get to the elusive nine win season with Spencer Rattler, you are certainly entitled to be. I hope they tank hard if they can't land a legit QB prospect in this draft, and I ain't apologizing for it. It's just different perspectives. *shrugs*

I appreciate you, Dog (or is it dog?).

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

I appreciate you, Dog (or is it dog?).

That's Mr. Dog to you.

Originally Posted by chazoe60

That's Mr. Dog to you.

Uh, nope.

Originally Posted by Simple Jaded

This is why a rebuild starts with a QB, you don’t build a roster and culture and then find a QB.

The Broncos have tried that since JFE retired . . . . . . I’m sure it’ll work this time though.

The Chiefs did...

Originally Posted by dogfish

Who's the last "late round gem" QB to win a Super Bowl who's not Tom Shady? Nick Foles was a 3rd rounder, I don't really count him. And more to the point, he only started a handful of games, Carson Wentz played most of that season for them, and at an MVP level.

Nick Foles has FQB arm talent, Wentz too.

Originally Posted by UnderArmour

The Chiefs did...

Then traded up to get Mahomes, understood.

Who’d they draft before Mahomes that registers? Chris Jones? 2nd round pick. Tyreek? 4th round pick. Their roster was Meh when they won the first SB (aside from their Big Three), and it wasn’t until this last SB that they had a balanced roster.

It rarely works and the Broncos almost never trade up (especially in the 1st round and especially for a QB). The Broncos (and their fans) can’t keep hoping things will change, hope is not a strategy.