Thread: Don't trade PS2. Don't suggest trading him. Your hot take is bad.

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

I will never support a tank. I've never given up in my own life, and don't hope or wish them to either.

Congratulations on your moral superiority. . . and the continuing sub-.500 seasons.



I'm f***ing with you. . . mostly.

But seriously, Denver has won three Super Bowls. All three of them came with QBs drafted #1 overall. We all know the draft is an inexact science, absolutely no one thinks a high draft status brings ANY sort of guarantee about a guy's future. But look at the guys who have won playoff games in recent years. You're going to find an awful lot of Mahomes (#10), Burrow (#1), Allen (#7), Lawrence (#1), Goff (#1), Stroud (#2), and this year even Baker Mayfield (#1). Even Lamar and Hurts were top 50-ish picks. And yes, Brock Purdy. Dude wouldn't win five games here. How many playoff games did Andy Dalton win? Kirk Cousins is the Cadillac of game manager QBs, dude has one playoff win in his life. Hawg is correct, it's about maximizing your odds vs. just hoping for a miracle. If you're all-in on trying to get to the elusive nine win season with Spencer Rattler, you are certainly entitled to be. I hope they tank hard if they can't land a legit QB prospect in this draft, and I ain't apologizing for it. It's just different perspectives. *shrugs*

The other problem with waiting for the Broncos to find that diamond in the rough is that that would require an organization that takes those shots. The Denver Broncos do not do that very often. The shots this organization typically takes are on other team's QBs. That's the thing about having a bad bad season is it nudges that FO to go for that blue chip QB where constantly drafting 12-20 almost always directly encourages the opposite approach of drafting safe and or trading back and continuing that wait til next year for the QB strategy.

That has been what has killed us, we continually draft in no-man's land where blue chippers don't tend to fall and the smart play is typically to trade down. It has killed our talent level when compared to other teams.

Drafting at the end of the draft incentives an aggressive approach because you're typically already a good team so their inclination is to maximize quality over quantity. This forces their FOs to be more aggressive to add that one more shiny piece.

And I don't want us to just tank, but it would have been nice if last year when we got thumped by Miami, if we would have shifted gears from squeezing the most juice out of the lemon into let's try a different drink altogether. We could have organically benched Rus that week. Traded him for peanuts(we would have still ate the cap cost but we might have got a 7th or something) or just release him then. We could have given Stidham an actual tryout and promoted DiNooooch. Could have fired VJ and promoted Christian Parker to DC. None of that would have been questioned after the drubbing we took that day. We could have injected a youth movement into many parts of the team at that very point and our record would have likely been much worse but our future would be much more secure.

I want them to tank, but that’s just me, Imma maverick . . . always focused on silly little things like winning SB’s and actually competing with the Queefs instead of just “winning” A GAME every 15 tries.

Give me 0-17 over 8-9 all day/every day, y’all enjoy meaningless “wins” enough for the both of us.

Originally Posted by chazoe60

The worst thing that could happen to this franchise IMHO is if we start Stidham all season and go 6-12 to 9-8. The best we start Stidham and he turns out to be the best QB in the world and nobody knew it but SP.
One of those things has an exponentially better chance of happening.

Draft and develop a rookie QB this season, or suck terribly bad, I mean really really bad and draft the best QB in next years draft.

A 9 win next season while a winning season on paper would be a much less favorable outcome for the long term health of this organization than a 3 win season. That's just my opinion.

For Broncos Joe a “Winning season” “Fits the system”.

See what I did there.

I get Joe's point of view. Hell, I actually respect it more than that of my own. But I'm a little evil and willing to do the wrong thing if it makes me happier in the end.


As far as losing goes. I'll just put it this way. If I'm happy 9 times next football season, I'll be much less happy on draft night 2025 than if I'm only happy 3 times during the season.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Absolutely. And Mahomes wasn't taken first overall. But having 32 options for your first round pick beats having one (you get the idea). Over time, and on balance, that increased opportunity translates to wins. Some franchises just suck and turn a Steve Young into a loser, doesn't mean that #1 draft pick wasn't worth a ton of wins.

Still...when do you know you are a contender if you aren't giving it 100 all the time? Ain't like a light goes off once "rebuilding" is done and winning is supposed to begin.

I appreciate your contribution, Joe..

You know how you’re a contender?

Do you have the QB?

That’s it, everything is cliche rhetoric.

At the moment the only team that can legitimately call itself a contender w/o a QB is the 49ers . . . they’ve made the SB with Garapolo and Purdy.

You’re god damn right I’m “hung up on draft position”, the better the draft position the better chance you have of even being able to try to develop a FQB.

Rod Smith, TD and Shannon Sharpe . . . they’re the exception and they don’t even play QB.

Period, point blank, full stop . . . those 8 wins the Broncos gave you meant nothing and they most likely mean the Broncos are out of reach for the kind of QB that you know the Broncos need.

The Broncos are in purgatory.

This is why a rebuild starts with a QB, you don’t build a roster and culture and then find a QB.

The Broncos have tried that since JFE retired . . . . . . I’m sure it’ll work this time though.

Who's the last "late round gem" QB to win a Super Bowl who's not Tom Shady? Nick Foles was a 3rd rounder, I don't really count him. And more to the point, he only started a handful of games, Carson Wentz played most of that season for them, and at an MVP level.

Originally Posted by chazoe60

I get Joe's point of view. Hell, I actually respect it more than that of my own. But I'm a little evil and willing to do the wrong thing if it makes me happier in the end.


As far as losing goes. I'll just put it this way. If I'm happy 9 times next football season, I'll be much less happy on draft night 2025 than if I'm only happy 3 times during the season.

Everybody makes mistakes in life. The best thing you can do is man up, own it, and do what you can to make it right. Denver has made a boatload of mistakes. Doing a proper rebuild is owning that.

Who's the last team that has tanked to win a SB?

I don't support a tank, I don't think the Broncos will be tanking next season. I think they will be performing basically the same as last season, just with a better vision and more hope. We will hover around 500.

The key has always been a QB. There's never really been a need for a "top to bottom rebuild" or anything like that. The powers that be just keep picking shitty QBs. That's literally it.

Originally Posted by aberdien

Who's the last team that has tanked to win a SB?

I don't support a tank, I don't think the Broncos will be tanking next season. I think they will be performing basically the same as last season, just with a better vision and more hope. We will hover around 500.

The key has always been a QB. There's never really been a need for a "top to bottom rebuild" or anything like that. The powers that be just keep picking shitty QBs. That's literally it.

The Rams were 4-12 in 2016, then cleaned house and did a complete rebuild with a new coach and #1 overall QB. Took them a minute, but it worked.

Also, there's no guaranteed path to a title. It's about giving yourself the best odds to be in the hunt year after year, and it starts with getting a great QB-- most of whom are drafted in the top ten.

Abe phrases it as winning a SB and not "who tanked and built a strong organization again," not out of arguing in poor faith, but because he's pretty stupid.

The Rams have recently done it.

The Colts became SB contenders with Andrew Luck.

You can also throw in just about any team who had to shed a bunch of expensive players and pay the piper on salary cap hell.

Shit, the Bengals had tons of roster turnover leading up to and after Burrow.

Originally Posted by dogfish

Who's the last "late round gem" QB to win a Super Bowl who's not Tom Shady? Nick Foles was a 3rd rounder, I don't really count him. And more to the point, he only started a handful of games, Carson Wentz played most of that season for them, and at an MVP level.

Bingo.

The Texans tanked two seasons ago, and got CJ Stroud last year. What's worse, having a couple really down years (when you were already a bad team anyway), or sucking for a decade and trying to decide whether to painfully overdraft Bo Nix, or hope Michael Penix and his gimp knees and shoulders falls to the third?

Seriously Abe, who's the last team to win a championship doing things the way the Donkeys have been? The answer is no one, it's never happened.

It’s time to get rid of Abe. He serves no purpose.