Thread: Jordan vs James: Breaking down and Deep Diving the eras

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

I love this thread.

King: posts stats, facts, and data supporting the case for why LeBron is better.

MJ fans: nuh-uh, MJ is better!!!

Ive posted a lot of facts in the past about why Jordan is better, i literally just posted an article in which a lot of former and recent players state he is the best even while liking James and the late Bryant. King has always made a great case for James at least when it comes to data, but we know data doesnt always tell the whole story no matter the sport. When King and i decide to do a video on this subject its going to be interesting but i highly doubt any one of us comes away changing the others mind. But rather than be a troll Wave maybe for once just try to accept that not everyone is going to see things the way you do. Start there.

Originally Posted by Northman

Ive posted a lot of facts in the past about why Jordan is better, i literally just posted an article in which a lot of former and recent players state he is the best even while liking James and the late Bryant. King has always made a great case for James at least when it comes to data, but we know data doesnt always tell the whole story no matter the sport. When King and i decide to do a video on this subject its going to be interesting but i highly doubt any one of us comes away changing the others mind. But rather than be a troll Wave maybe for once just try to accept that not everyone is going to see things the way you do. Start there.

But being a troll is far more fun.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

But being a troll is far more fun.

Whatever you say J-Ham.

Originally Posted by Northman

Ive posted a lot of facts in the past about why Jordan is better, i literally just posted an article in which a lot of former and recent players state he is the best even while liking James and the late Bryant. King has always made a great case for James at least when it comes to data, but we know data doesnt always tell the whole story no matter the sport. When King and i decide to do a video on this subject its going to be interesting but i highly doubt any one of us comes away changing the others mind. But rather than be a troll Wave maybe for once just try to accept that not everyone is going to see things the way you do. Start there.

You are one of the few MJ homies who brings heat.

I've come to realize some things.

First, I respect and admire those people who make their point with grace and empathy like Kinger, North, BroncoJoe, and chazoe. Apologies if I missed anyone.

Second, I dislike these Skip Bayless type sports commentary experiences when they emerge on these forums, it leaves me discontent and edgy--unhappy.

Lastly, the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin will never be measured to anyone's satisfaction, so hopefully it's a debate that leads to more camaraderie rather than less, and hopefully I can do my part to make it so more often than not.

<3

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

I've come to realize some things.

First, I respect and admire those people who make their point with grace and empathy like Kinger, North, BroncoJoe, and chazoe. Apologies if I missed anyone.

Second, I dislike these Skip Bayless type sports commentary experiences when they emerge on these forums, it leaves me discontent and edgy--unhappy.

Lastly, the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin will never be measured to anyone's satisfaction, so hopefully it's a debate that leads to more camaraderie rather than less, and hopefully I can do my part to make it so more often than not.

<3

In the spirit of camaraderie:

I think there's a sweet spot that falls in between the first and the second. As a younger man, I was exclusively in camp one; no one listened and I was left...besmirched. That wasn't going to cut it. As a slightly less youthful man I gravitated towards second category: oh people listened, and the point was made...but it was unfun for a chunk of people. That wasn't what I wanted. Granted I, like most people, have more honesty than Skip, but I think you know what I mean. I think I, as well as my stylish homies, reside there in that sweet spot, or strive to at least. Sometimes you do need a bit of edge to cut through some shit. Folks like some sizzle with the substance, and often it's the thing that moves it over the top. But if it's all sizzle it's shitty real quick. Gotta eat.

To your last point: MJ vs. LBJ is the ultimate barbershop discussion. They have whole shows dedicated to it on national sports. That's why I and others were a bit shocked when folks said it wasn't a contentious issue; it very much is. I do push the boundaries with "how do you even argue MJ," when I argue who they are as players because (1) a lot of M.J. fans avoid that conversational aspect like the plague and (2) there is so much mythos and shibbolething going on with MJ that sometimes I want the person to just ARGUE it. Use the rhetorical skills you have and don't be lazy.

I only get 'mad' at a few things in these debates: blatant dishonesty; a lack of knowledge to the point where the opinion is based on nothing; Abe's existence; Chaz/Wave's horrid take on J-Lo and that booty. The first is the worst, followed by Abe. Really, that's the story here. Abe is tearing us apart, the little shit!

The gaslightling here is unreal. You have multiple people in this thread who have openly admitted to never watching LeBron play yet still offer takes on him as a player, I call that out for the unserious nonsense it is, and I'm apparently the Skip Bayless-esque a-hole here.

I think my instinct was right the first time I left this place. Thank you all for reminding me what a good decision that was and what a waste of time it is even bothering with the nonsense here.

King, you the homie. I'll catch you at our other place.

Originally Posted by Northman

Jordan was still the greatest.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

I love this thread.

King: posts stats, facts, and data supporting the case for why LeBron is better.

MJ fans: nuh-uh, MJ is better!!!

Yep, no gaslighting here. Seeya and dont let the door hit ya. You dont get to start trolling people and then play the victim, ffs.

And yes, ive watched Lebron play.

Originally Posted by broncowave

the gaslightling here is unreal. You have multiple people in this thread who have openly admitted to never watching lebron play yet still offer takes on him as a player, i call that out for the unserious nonsense it is, and i'm apparently the skip bayless-esque a-hole here.

I think my instinct was right the first time i left this place. Thank you all for reminding me what a good decision that was and what a waste of time it is even bothering with the nonsense here.

King, you the homie. I'll catch you at our other place.

IOW:

Wah!

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

The gaslightling here is unreal. You have multiple people in this thread who have openly admitted to never watching LeBron play yet still offer takes on him as a player, I call that out for the unserious nonsense it is, and I'm apparently the Skip Bayless-esque a-hole here.

I think my instinct was right the first time I left this place. Thank you all for reminding me what a good decision that was and what a waste of time it is even bothering with the nonsense here.

King, you the homie. I'll catch you at our other place.

Sometimes you come across as if provocation is your intent, but it's understandable. It could also be that we aren't your best audience, and that reflects on us. I hope you don't go, and just be a little less snarky and more empathetic for our sorry gaslighting asses. I am not one to talk, but just putting it out there honest as I can.

Whatever you decide, I got your back irl, you are Kingers homie.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Sometimes you come across as if provocation is your intent, but it's understandable. It could also be that we aren't your best audience, and that reflects on us. I hope you don't go, and just be a little less snarky and more empathetic for our sorry gaslighting asses. I am not one to talk, but just putting it out there honest as I can.

Whatever you decide, I got your back irl, you are Kingers homie.

A lot of times when he's being goofy, or just playfully flip, it is seen differently than I see it. I think Wave does have a point that in a debate thread, it's weird that folks are at least implying they don't watch ball at all. And for a debate, that does make it a bit rough. I don't think Wave was doing anything other than having some fun. But I am biased; Wave is my guy. I mean you're all my guys; but he's at least my guy, in this situation, who seems to be at the center of it.

For context, I've read posts where prima facie, real talk, it looked like folks were saying X, Y, and Z. Wave would read it that way, too. And then five other folks would know what the person intended. A message board is prone to promote colloquial discussions and those often go awry in real life. I dunno; I saw it as Wave rightfully taking umbrage with posts that very much appeared to say "I haven't watched ball in decades, but I know M.J. is GOAT'D," hence my shibboleth comments. It is what it is. I'm NOT trying to stoke flames; I am just trying to be the honest and earnest dude you all know me to be.

I want Wave to come back, but if he doesn't he doesn't. While my leaving the board for 30 seconds at a time is a running gag--one where I poke fun at myself, I might add--I have taken longer breaks. At certain points I was sure I wasn't coming back. This is a place where people watched me go from a JUCO dropout to graduating in the top half of my law school, after taking time off to battle mental illness. This is a board where we watched Wave go from teenager to grown ass man and father. There's a lot of value in this place; even if it drives us up the wall from time-to-time.

Michael Jordan would never write something like that, but LBJ would, and that's why he's the GOAT! GOAT JAMES!

Originally Posted by King87

Michael Jordan would never write something like that, but LBJ would, and that's why he's the GOAT! GOAT JAMES!

Nice fadeaway J...

Wave had strong points. I felt like he dissed Nomad, and it's exactly like you say, "Let me guess, he played the game the way it should be played." I get it, and I get it in the way that you say, as harmless mb banter. Then he felt ganged up on. It's a crappy feeling, being unappreciated like that. I hope that the feedback he got from the interaction doesn't end up being dismissed as a bunch of old white guy ignorance and poor breeding, because I think dudes were all sorta rooting for him to just take it down a notch and pass the pipe.

I know I have a role in this and I exposed my weaknesses, which I hope are forgiven.

Anyways...I was brought up in the church of Jordan, and there are certain heresies we do not discuss, this being one...

However...I might concede that LBJ is the better player, while maintaining that Jordan will always be the GOAT because he benefited from circumstances to a greater degree, and I cannot allocate credit precisely.

This is all Westbrook’s fault.

Michael was 32 when he retired. He played 15 seasons in the NBA. LeBron is 38, and has played in 20 seasons. IMO, which one is better can not be done based on stats, unless stats used for LeBron would be those in his first 15 seasons.

I did not take the time to read the comments in this thread, to know if the above has already been posted.