Thread: Jordan vs James: Breaking down and Deep Diving the eras

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

The smartest thing MJ ever did in terms of his public image was be publicly apolitical. Never said anything controversial that turned anyone against him, so it made him universally liked. LeBron has been very active and outspoken on political and social issues, and has had the occasional misstep in that area especially when it comes to China, so that area of his persona is probably one big reason that such a large portion of the population seems to hate his guts. Won't delve further into that as this isn't the proper forum, but I think that plays a way bigger part in how both guys are discussed than many would like to admit.

And MJ admitted he regrets that now.

Is what it is.

Bron also has a nicer smile, kind eyes.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

There is a 0.0% chance you would call him a bitch to his face.

And if you actually did do that, you are a complete weirdo and he's twice the man you'd ever dream of being.

But I'd like to think I know you enough to know you aren't that big of a loser that you'd actually do that in real life and you're just trolling online.

You're right, I wouldn't unprovoked call the man a bitch to his face, I'm not a neanderthal. My overriding point is that Lebron James is the least intimidating 6'9" 300lb (or whatever) human who has ever lived and if he wanted to fight me I'd be giddy. If you think I'm lying, I promise you I ain't.

Originally Posted by chazoe60

You're right, I wouldn't unprovoked call the man a bitch to his face, I'm not a neanderthal. My overriding point is that Lebron James is the least intimidating 6'9" 300lb (or whatever) human who has ever lived and if he wanted to fight me I'd be giddy. If you think I'm lying, I promise you I ain't.

But that's what's great about LeBron! Dude is a better man off the court than he is a player on it, and would never even consider trying to pick a fight with some rando who calls him a bitch online. He's too busy being a family man to bother with such nonsense!

Ultimately, my biggest point here is that MJ fans need to stop being such babies and come to terms with the fact that LeBron is right on his level and the debate between the two is a very close and valid debate. That doesn't take away from anything MJ did. Just means he has another resident in his neighborhood. Ain't nothing wrong with that!

Remember when Lebron gathered up all the orphans in Cleveland and told them on live tv he was leaving to go to Miami? I almost like him for it. It was like something a cartoon villain would come up with.

Originally Posted by chazoe60

Remember when Lebron gathered up all the orphans in Cleveland and told them on live tv he was leaving to go to Miami? I almost like him for it. It was like something a cartoon villain would come up with.

I was in peak CLE hate mode and I was so happy when he left.

Originally Posted by chazoe60

Remember when Lebron gathered up all the orphans in Cleveland and told them on live tv he was leaving to go to Miami? I almost like him for it. It was like something a cartoon villain would come up with.

Remember the boatload of money that event raised for said children? Yeah, what a real evil POS that dude is, going on TV to say where he's playing basketball and raising a bunch of money for disadvantaged kids in the process. The audacity of that jerk!

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

The most recent players poll had MJ at 58% and LeBron at around 23%.

To me, it feels a bit of a forced topic because of his longevity and body of work--and he's still a major personality actively playing. This feels like peak LeBron to me.

I'd still vote MJ but if there was a contender it would be LeBron.

The greats are great because of results, and he just ain't got them.

He has...a **** ton of results, but we'll get there.

You can't just argue longevity with LBJ; his numbers past his prime--which ended two years ago, maybe three--are better than most people's prime. It's actually the greatest display ever of greatness + length. He was the best player in the game by most accounts from year 3-17. This isn't somehow hanging on to break a record; this is a guy being the best player in the game for the longest period of time. Any analysis that leaves that out is incomplete. Two years ago as an old man he averaged 30 points a game; that's not longevity. The year before he led the league in assists; that's not longevity. That's greatness. Maybe greatness you typically see before years 15 and not after, but LBJ is built like that. Appreciate it, Hawg. Respect it. It's not just longevity.

The results that you cast off are being the only player in NBA history to be top five in assists and scoring. He that did year in and year out; being an elite scorer and facilitator. We marveled at Harden--we'll get to him in a second--and Steph for doing that for five or six years....LBJ has been doing that for over a decade. Again, imagine having Terrell Davis being the elite back he was in years 11, 12, 13....how crazy would it be to just scream longevity? Those are huge results. You seem to be minimizing major things that are objectively pillars of strength for LBJ. I don't get. Just being honest.

Regarding the "forced debate," it's not forced: it's been going on for quite some time, the man has had a resume and results to rival MJ. It's just that now the case is stronger than ever.

The man has four championships and overcame two dynasties. The first one he closed the door on, the Spurs; the second one he forced to build the greatest team ever with Durant, and that's after they set the record for most wins in a season. That 3-1 comeback against the Warriors was basically the zenith of basketball greatness. Those are more results. Now comp them to Jordan.

The best team Jordan ever played in the finals was the Jazz. The Jazz do not sniff either GSW or SA. MJ had the luxury of watching the dynasties in his era age out: LA, DET, and BOS. Two of them were in his conference, so all those losses he took to them don't count, somehow. The last one he did kill off in his first title run, but that as without Kareem, and Worthy was playing on a bad leg.

It's quite possible to argue, based on degree of difficulty, that LeBron's four titles are more impressive than Jordan's six. I'll even raise the stakes: LeBron beat the OKC in the finals; that team had three Hall of Famers on it--Durant, who was a MVP at the time, Westbrook, a top five guard, and Harden, who had not become the God he would, but was still dangerous and the best 6th man of the year--and Ibaka, an elite defender. That team > Seattle, Portland, and Phoenix very, very easily. Jordan was beating guys like Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton, Dale Ellis, Drexler, etc. The best player he beat on a non-Jazz team was Charles Barkley, and that guy isn't even a top twenty player anymore.

But LeBron was beating KD, Steph, Duncan, Harden, Westbrook, etc. And, if you think that I'm being unfair, I'll use you argument against you: if six rings are the results we're suing, Bill Russell > MJ. Russell was the best player on the greatest dynasty in NBA history; he's considered by many to be the greatest defensive player ever. He won a chunk of MVPs, etc. And if you'll argue era, competition to get out of that, then you have to deal with what I'm talking about with LBJ having the greater degree of difficulty.

And it's not peak LBJ, either. Just wait till he retires and we go over the massive catalog of stuff you forgot. Dragging a horrible, maybe the worst supporting cast ever, to the finals after overcoming the reigning champion Pistons...in one of the greatest performances ever.

And that doesn't even factor in how LBJ wasn't just an isoloation/solo player like MJ. He ran the entire offense: it was his job every player to use his photographic memory to decide if he was scoring, threatening the drive, passing, etc. He is and was literally the closest thing to an actual player coach in league history. He was, as the experts say, "the system." Jordan needed how many years to figure out he had to win with team ball, and resisted it. If you don't believe me, go watch save the last dance.

Yeah, the longer I think about it, the more obvious is that it is LBJ > MJ clearly. Just need some of the fanboys to quiet down, let history pass and then the folks who only watched 90's ball and don't follow today will be quieted out. Because, again, so much of MJ's argument goes past what he actually did and the mythos of it.

Meh, love you Hawg.

It's still a dumb argument/discussion. They're both great. MJ is probably slightly better all around, but LBJ is a fantastic player, now and earlier.

I think what rubbed me wrong was how he left CLE. Yes, King, I know you hate everything CLE, but that was just wrong and rubbed me the wrong way. It'd be like Elway leaving the Broncos to go play for (insert team name) and not the Broncos.

I don't like him, even though there's no rational reason not to like him.

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

It's still a dumb argument/discussion. They're both great. MJ is probably slightly better all around, but LBJ is a fantastic player, now and before.

I think what rubbed me wrong is his leaving CLE. Yes, King, I know you hate everything CLE, but that was just wrong and rubbed me the wrong way. It'd be like Elway leaving the Broncos to go play for (insert team name) and not the Broncos.

I don't like him, even though there's no rational reason not to like him.

There's a lot right with this post and I respect it. I don't think it was wrong to leave CLE because they screwed up the roster time and time again, and their owner was wildly bad.

I think all LBJ did was partially what Elway did--Elway obvs didn't make a super team--and told a bad team with a bad owner that he wasn't going to settle for all that pain and suckage. Not a one-to-one comparison.

I think you dislike him because you acknowledge me as the one and true King. And I appreciate that.

Originally Posted by King87

There's a lot right with this post and I respect it. I don't think it was wrong to leave CLE because they screwed up the roster time and time again, and their owner was wildly bad.

I think all LBJ did was partially what Elway did--Elway obvs didn't make a super team--and told a bad team with a bad owner that he wasn't going to settle for all that pain and suckage. Not a one-to-one comparison.

I think you dislike him because you acknowledge me as the one and true King. And I appreciate that.

I will never call LBJ King. There is only one.

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

I will never call LBJ King. There is only one.

I appreciate your support. <3

Jordan > all

How is this even a discussion?

Originally Posted by slim

Jordan > all

How is this even a discussion?

Hey gorgeous! You doing good?

I have zero issue with how LeBron left Cleveland or anywhere else. In this era of basketball where it's become commonplace for players to demand trades with 2,3,4 years left on their contracts, LeBron has never once done it. He's played out every single contract he's ever signed to completion, and only then entered free agency to switch teams. That's literally what free agency was created for and he's utilized it as it should be used.

I feel like a lot of people are really mad that he's never been arrested or had any off court issues they can criticize so they are grasping at straws calling him a villain for... leaving in free agency? It's just sad, really.