Thread: Why Is Dan Reeves Not In The Hall Of Fame?

Originally Posted by dogfish

I'm mad.


Mad that Captain run run pass punt wasted most of John's career.

I aint mad, we got to 3 SB's under him.

Originally Posted by Northman

I aint mad, we got to 3 SB's under him.

You're too metal to be mad. We only got to two with our next coach, although he didn't get as many years, or any of JFE's prime.

Originally Posted by dogfish

We only got to two with our next coach, although he didn't get as many years, or any of JFE's prime.

Good point. Mr. Antiquated (Reeves) was carried to those three SB's in the 80's. I believe that he should have been fired after the 1990 season (when Denver went 5-11).

I know that the Broncos went 12-4 in 1991, but that was due to a 5th place schedule, Wade's defense, and Elway.

If Elway didn't get hurt in 1992 against the Giants, and the Broncos made the playoffs, it is possible that the Bronco organization is still looking for it's first SB win. Dan Reeves would have had his contract extended, and Elway probably would have wanted out. Don't see Reeves and Tommy Maddox winning a SB in Denver.

I’m looking at this years class and none of them seem like hall of famers. They were good players but that’s it. They are watering it down.

Zach Thomas, Rhonde Barber, Joe Klecko? These guys were good players but not all time greats!

Originally Posted by Slick

I’m looking at this years class and none of them seem like hall of famers. They were good players but that’s it. They are watering it down.

some of those guys were great but under reported. Ken Riley is one of the best ball hawks ever. He should have been heralded as a cornerback great of his day.

I’d like to see more spots go to the backlog of players who should have gone in already. Ronde was a Tampa two corner; he wasn’t great.

Originally Posted by dogfish

I'm mad.


Mad that Captain run run pass punt wasted most of John's career.

Yet in 1985 Elway had his most pass attempts for a season as a pro. Elway, believe it or not was a true prototypical west offense QB. He knew and learned the system at Stanford where Bill Walsh had brought it before Elway was there. You saw how he ran it when he was older under Shanahan.

Reeves didn't win just because of Elway. He could flat out coach. He won with the Giants and won with the Falcons. Again, we ought to be far more greatful for Reeves since this franchise more than likely wouldn't have three titles due what was probably the greatest upset in the history of the NFL. That was mainly due to that icky CONSERVATIVE play calling.

Again, the MAIN REASON Bud Grant and Marv Levy were FIRST BALLOT Hall of Famers was because of 4 SB appearances.

Well Reeves did that too with a better overall record as coach than Levy and the only between the 3 to do it with two different franchises.

He's a HoFer by the resume. He should get credit for winning a lot, making SBs like other HoF coaches, and helping some teams rebuild and be great.

But he was super arrogant, undercut his stud QB, and refused to change. He was the anti-Coughlin in that regard. At one point Tom Coughlin looked himself in the mirror and knew that yes, he was a stud HC in Jax, yes, he was doing well in New York, but he wasn't winning as much as he could. Why? Because he was too much of a stubborn man. Watch his "A Football Life," that shit is fascinating. Regardless, D.R. didn't have it in him to do that. And that's what cost him, imo.

Originally Posted by Broncoknight30

Yet in 1985 Elway had his most pass attempts for a season as a pro. Elway, believe it or not was a true prototypical west offense QB. He knew and learned the system at Stanford where Bill Walsh had brought it before Elway was there. You saw how he ran it when he was older under Shanahan.

Reeves didn't win just because of Elway. He could flat out coach. He won with the Giants and won with the Falcons. Again, we ought to be far more greatful for Reeves since this franchise more than likely wouldn't have three titles due what was probably the greatest upset in the history of the NFL. That was mainly due to that icky CONSERVATIVE play calling.

Again, the MAIN REASON Bud Grant and Marv Levy were FIRST BALLOT Hall of Famers was because of 4 SB appearances.

Well Reeves did that too with a better overall record as coach than Levy and the only between the 3 to do it with two different franchises.

The fact that Levy and Grant are in but he isn't probably is the best argument he has. His resume definitely stacks up favorably with theirs.

Fair or not, I think what really kills him is the offense he ran. Seems like the narrative that stuck with him was how much he held Elway back. Even if that's a totally unfair narrative (I wasn't around back then, so I won't give input there) it's hard to shake public perception.

I do think the fact that he took two teams to the Super Bowl (and with the second one went through possibly a top 5 team in NFL history to do it) should probably carry some additional weight.

Originally Posted by King87

He's a HoFer by the resume. He should get credit for winning a lot, making SBs like other HoF coaches, and helping some teams rebuild and be great.

But he was super arrogant, undercut his stud QB, and refused to change. He was the anti-Coughlin in that regard. At one point Tom Coughlin looked himself in the mirror and knew that yes, he was a stud HC in Jax, yes, he was doing well in New York, but he wasn't winning as much as he could. Why? Because he was too much of a stubborn man. Watch his "A Football Life," that shit is fascinating. Regardless, D.R. didn't have it in him to do that. And that's what cost him, imo.

Dan Reeves was shaped and molded by the school of Tom Landry. Who, was very much like that. It took Landry a while to warm up to Roger Staubach cause he would do so many things "OFF SCRIPT." Which is why he actually preferred Craig Morton in the beginning. In 1970, Landry did the ridiculous thing of switching Morton and Staubach by drives. Then Landry did the dumb thing of starting Morton over Staubach in SB V.

Reeves eventually takes over OC and he implemented the shotgun offense and took advantage of the legs of Staubach and it was one of the more innovative successful offenses of the 70s. Resulted in two SB wins against some of the most renowned defenses of all time. Including crushing the Dolphins legendary no name defenses, the orange crush and scored 31 points against the great Steel Curtain in SB XIII. That was Reeves taking advantage of Roger the dodger.

Well, Elway (his childhood idol was Staubach and one big reason he wanted to work with Reeves.) Reeves ran a lot of innovative offenses. It wasn't 3 yards and a cloud of dust. There were many games that the game plan was great.

However Elway was careless A LOT. Elway thought of himself has some sort of Marino. He was very jealous of Marinos success in 1984. Reeves tried to implement a more opened up offense in 1985, hence the 600+pass attempts. He drafted Vance Johnson that year in the first round...etc etc.

Elway....believe it or not was a SYSTEM QB like nearly all of them are. If the west coast offense was where he went in his early years, it would've been devastating to the league.


BTW, all coaches with the exception of a very few are very demanding. Bill Parcells sure as heck was. All of them. Belichick didn't even give Brady the respect Brady wanted.

That's very old school stuff and Reeves was absolutely schooled and he was very successful. The great thing that proves that is he took the Falcons to a SB with Chandler. Period

I like your post...but a guy who is a transcendent talent isn't a system QB; he's just a QB who could do well in any system.

That's very old school stuff and Reeves was absolutely schooled and he was very successful. The great thing that proves that is he took the Falcons to a SB with Chandler. Period

Chandler wasn't that bad of a QB by that point. He always had the ability. In 1990, the Buccaneers traded their 1992 first-rounder (which turned out to be #2 overall) to the Colts for him.

The problem with Chris early on was that he wasn't very coachable (he credited Jerry Rhome with turning his career around, not Reeves. He was established by the time he got to Atlanta in 1997). Also, he got hurt a lot (hence the nickname Crystal Chandelier).

I like your post...but a guy who is a transcendent talent isn't a system QB; he's just a QB who could do well in any system.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by 7DnBrnc53

Chandler wasn't that bad of a QB by that point. He always had the ability. In 1990, the Buccaneers traded their 1992 first-rounder (which turned out to be #2 overall) to the Colts for him.

The problem with Chris early on was that he wasn't very coachable (he credited Jerry Rhome with turning his career around, not Reeves. He was established by the time he got to Atlanta in 1997). Also, he got hurt a lot (hence the nickname Crystal Chandelier).



Exactly.

He was a decent QB and a journeyman type. Effective and all of that but don't pretend your biased opinion isn't effected by the facts by trying to prop up Chandler as "not that bad." Of course he isn't that bad. Far from hall of fame though and the average fan would never know the name "Chris Chandler" if you ask them.

Elway turned out to be a bit of a SYSTEM QB. Reeves haters point out that Elways stats did great under Shanahan as opposed to Reeves.

Well, Staubach's stats, Chandlers stats and even Phil Simms stats under Reeves were better under Reeves SYSTEM.

Elway with his mobility and arm was truly the prototype for the west coast offense and Bill Walsh expressed significant interest. Most people don't know or forget the 49ers were 3 and 6 in 1982 (strike year.) Montana took a significant dive after their SB year of 1981. Walsh was making a significant play to get Elway for a reason.

Elway's arm and mobility made him great for any system. Walsh wanted him because he was the better QB. Elway > Montana. Rings are overrated.

Originally Posted by King87

Elway's arm and mobility made him great for any system. Walsh wanted him because he was the better QB. Elway > Montana. Rings are overrated.

You notice and many liked to point it out, Elway's stats jumped in 1993 and 1994. Take a guess who his OC. Jim Fassel (rip.) Now rearch his career. He was Elways coach at Stanford Fassel was west coast offense follower. Again, Bill Walsh had brought it in to Stanford prior Elway getting there. In 1993, everyone saw how Elways stats all of a sudden flourished. Unfortunately, Wade Philips allowed Charlie Waters to run his 4-3 defense and Philips didn't really take over. It was an outdated disaster and Philips could have went back to his far more successful 3-4 attack style.

The Bowlen had already made plans to hire Shanahan but Shanahan wanted to learn the intricacies of the west coast offense se and that's why he actually turned down Bowlen originally after the 1992 season. Shanahan told Bowlen that he needs at least 2 seasons to learn this offense.

Bowlen during SB 29 (49ers and Chargers) wore a disguise and met with Shanahan either prior to that SB. They made a handshake agreement and Shanahan basically was basically "hired" during that meeting.

�� I think that stuff is funny.

Anyway, the point is while Elway was such an outstanding athlete and all of that, his skillset (mentally) was fit perfectly with the west coast system.

Reeves wasn't necessarily wrong in wanting Maddox. Elway hit is ceiling with Reeves and he wasn't good enough for his system....mentally. Sorry, but it's true.