Thread: Alice In Chains - GAH Week 11 - 1.21.23

A personal favorite.

I ask myself why I'm not taking them more seriously as the "greatest."

Shame In You is a song.

Why haven't I heard this?

There was a discussion about Alice in Chain's best song not that long ago. Here are some highlights:

Originally Posted by Northman

Very tough but for me its between Them Bones and Am I Inside. But they have a lot of great material out there even the later albums without Staley are pretty damn great. All Secrets Known, It Aint Like That, Would?, Scalpel, and Choke are other great tracks.

Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56

Some of the post Layne AIC stuff is money. I’m a HUGE AIC fan and I absolutely love the The Devil Put Dinosaurs Here album. Hollow, Stone, and Voices are excellent tracks. William Duvall, the new “front” man, is very talented but it’s really still about Jerry Cantrell. That dude is so talented, he’s such a great songwriter. If you like old AIC, you’ll probably like the newer stuff too. They’ve released several albums since Duvall has come onboard. Seriously though, YouTube Hollow or Stone you’ll dig it.

As far as favorites from the older albums
Facelift: We Die Young, It Ain’t Like That, Sea of Sorrow, Sunshine
Dirt: Them Bones, Dam that River, Rooster, Down in a Hole, Would?
Jar of Flies: No Excuses, Nutshell, I Stay Away
Self Titled: Again, Grind, Heaven Beside You

A “lost” song of there’s was on the “Last Action Hero” soundtrack called “What the Hell Have I”. It’s a total banger. Love it.

Originally Posted by Slick

I bought the the Last Action Hero soundtrack on CD back in the day just for that song.

Tough to pick just one but that one, Nutshell and Junkhead probably my top 3.

Also the Mad Seasons stuff might be my favorite stuff Layne ever did. Love that album from start to finish.

Originally Posted by Timmy!

Tough to pick one. Jar of flies and Dirt are both all time albums I still listen to regularly.

Originally Posted by Davii

To me Rooster is always the first one I go to, the story behind the song speaks to me. The video featuring Cantrell Sr. is, in my opinion, one of the better music videos out there regardless of band or genre. Aside from Rooster I like Nutshell and, even though it was more poppy, No Excuses. Really, the entire catalog is great, top-notch band that didn't get the props they deserved in the era.

Originally Posted by NightTrainLayne

No way to pick one, but I'm surprised no-one's mentioned "Would?" That would be up there.

But if I have to single one out, I might have to go with "River of Deceit".

Impossible to pick though. Too many good ones.

Originally Posted by Timmy!

I feel man in a box isn't getting enough love in this thread. Also, insert would joke here......

Originally Posted by Buff

I have been circling this thread - it's too difficult a question to answer, ultimately...

I've come down to the most quintessential AIC songs, for me, are Man in the Box and Down in a Hole -- kind of cliche but can't get past them. Rooster obviously belongs in the conversation - but that Man in the Box riff makes me want to run through a wall every time I hear, still. Down in a Hole sonically encompasses depression and sadness in a way that is hard to explain. They are both masterpieces...

The next tier for me, and maybe more personal favorites, are Would, Nutshell, No Excuses and Your Decision.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Nutshell is the best because: 1) showcase of Layne singing in the center of his range, 2) most melodic vocals and bass, 3) the other songs don't offer the same solace. The rest of the highlights--the choral harmony, the incredible guitar lines--are gravy. I'm not sure it works as well without being a legit metal band (a la Man in a Box, Dirt), but to me I know without hesitation which piece of music they made is most effective music. But objectively, I really like Buffalo's take.

Originally Posted by Nomad

Would, Nutshell, Man In The Box, Rooster in that order for me. AIC is awesome and one of my favorites. I like all their songs.

Originally Posted by MasterShake

Man in the Box, Heaven Beside You, Would, and I Stay Away were always my favorites.

Here's a little nostalgia clip from Headbangers Ball where Alice in Chains was at Adventure Park. In case you are curious why this is so cool, Adventure Park was a notorious water park in New Jersey run by essentially teenagers and a lunatic developer that had some of the most unsafe (and therefore fun) barely tested water rides in the world. It spawned two movies - Class Action Park which was a documentary about that place now on HBO Max, and Action Point which starred Johnny Knoxville but isn't worth watching:

Alice in Chains doesn't get love as the greatest American band because they don't have any landmark songs. As a metal band, they are too niche. A landmark song is one that you might play for the average random passerby on a city street or country road and they would probably know it. A song like Livin on a Prayer or Don't Stop Believin.

The same might be applied to Metallica, but on the black album Metallica released a more radio and general-audience friendly sound. Enter Sandman or maybe Master of Puppets are probably landmark songs.

Alice in Chains never strayed from their Sabbath type sound. Their most radio-friendly song, Heaven Beside You, has a chorus that goes "like the coldest winter winter chill, heaven beside you," and Layne (I think, it's not critical) sings a low melodic counterpoint: "hell within." That "hell within" is a B, Bb, Ab run atop the chord Bb major. The song is in the key of Ebm, which contains those notes, nothing weird there...but with respect to the chord Bb major, which is not a chord within Ebm, it's a weird overlay. It gives it a sort of phyrigian sound, like you might find in a Rush song or in melodic black metal.

It's weird and almost a middle finger to pop sensibility. It jumps off the page for me anyways.

It's cool as **** imo. Jerry's songs are all like that. He's a ******* McCartney in terms of songwriting but instead of applying his talents to pop music, he remained true to that Sabbath type sound.

But what makes AIC special is the glam and piano-rocker influence. Both Jerry and Layne had big love for Elton John. Layne's biggest influence as a vocalist was Elton John.

How did the collaboration with Elton come together? It’s a little surprising.
It makes a lot of sense to us. But the fact that it happened in the first place is something we didn’t expect. We were in the studio and were getting near the end. “Black Gives Way to Blue” was one of the last songs we cut. We were trying to figure out if we wanted a piano track on it. Our friend Todd who was in the room suggested calling Elton just out of the blue and we all looked at him like he was crazy. Of course we would love for that to happen, but we were like, ‘Nah that’s not going to happen, that dude’s busy. He’s got his own thing going on.’ But Todd was like, ‘Hey man, you never know unless you ask. I think he might do it!’ So we put that idea to the test.

How did you get him into the studio?
I wrote him an email and explained that the song was for Layne, and we heard that he was interested in doing it. Later, as we continued working on the record, it turned out that Elton was doing a session in the same studio as us in Los Angeles. [Drummer] Sean [Kinney] and I went out to lunch and we got a call from the studio manager saying, ‘Hey, Elton wants to talk to you.’ We’re like, ‘We’ll be back after lunch,’ and he said, ‘No, he’s taking off here in a few minutes so you guys need to get back here right now.’ So we canned the lunch and tore ass back to the studio and walked into the room that Elton was tracking in. He got up and gave us both a hug and said, ‘I just wanted to tell you that it’s a great tune and I want to play a track on it.’ We were totally blown away.

Was Layne a fan of Elton?
Yep. And, coincidentally, about a week ago Layne’s mom reminded me that Elton John was Layne’s first concert and she said he was blown away. Layne told me that once, but I had totally forgotten about it. It brought back some really cool memories. There’s a lot of really weird things lining up here. Number one: the significance of Elton to Alice in Chains. Number two: it was Layne’s first concert. And to have Elton play on a song for Layne, whew, it means so much to us.

AIC is so underrated.

Nirvana has the nostalgia of Cobain's death but i believe that AIC is every bit as good as Nirvana and actually better with a much longer catalog of great albums. I know im beating a dead horse but i dont think a band with 2 great albums should be the best ever. IMO

What I expected would happen with Alice in Chains for me is that I'd have to take a deeper look at all the stuff that's not obviously great. And I'm shoehorning Mad Season even though there's a lot of Mark Lanegan songwriting and AIC is Jerry Cantrell.

I've heard everything at least once, but I've given Dirt and Jar maybe 50 listens? More? Rainier Fog and Tripod, etc., are closer to 2-3 listens. Maybe not even that. Facelift I think is around 5-10 listens but most of them back in the day when I became super-saturated by Dirt.

The obviously great stuff:

Man in the Box
Dirt, the whole album
Jar of Flies, the whole EP
Heaven Beside You (not a personal fav, but a well known song)
River of Deceit
etc.

The rest of it:
Facelift (-MItB)
SAP
Dog Album
Mad Season (-River)
post-Layne stuff
Unplugged
Random songs like "A Little Bitter"

I expected this would go like this...there's some 20 or so absolute gems in the "obviously great" category. So with this as the starting point, how many songs get added to that list?

Man in the Box
River of Deceit
Nutshell
Don't Follow
I Stay Away
No Excuses
Them Bones
Would?
Dam That River
Rooster
Down in a Hole
Rain When I Die
Angry Chair
Dirt
Sickman
Junkhead
God Smack
Hate To Feel
Got Me Wrong
Heaven Beside You

^^that right there rivals the output of pretty much any 'great' American band. YMMV--this is my kind of music. This isn't a niche to me, this is how music is supposed to sound. It's not landmark stuff like Whitney Houston, it's got that "crippling depression vibe."

Originally Posted by aberdien

These days I generally do not listen to music that gives off a crippling depression vibe

Which is ground zero of my wheelhouse.

So having taken a deeper dive into the non-obvious stuff, I have a few additions to that list.

Alice in Chains are an underrated band that combine excellent composition and guitarwork from Jerry Cantrell with Layne Staley's amazing voice.

I'd have to contest a point above. I don't consider AiC a metal band. Some of their songs are on the brink of Alternative/Sludge Metal but there's not enough dissonance and punch to their riffs for them to qualify as Metal in the 90s.

Just to add to a few songs mentioned above, Grind, Head Creeps and Again are great songs from their 1995 record. I think Jar of Flies is underrated too.

Nice they still get some recognition. Think it's been impossible for anyone to fill Layne Staley's large boots properly though.

Facelift. It's more than a placeholder album for the song Man in the Box.

If Dirt is an A+ album (it is), Facelift is a B+ or A-.

If Dirt didn't put Facelift in such a deep shadow, it would get more love (hate love).

In my revisit, I recall how I came to Facelift around the same time as Dirt and Facelift got a little lost in the shuffle. There was so much good new music to explore, all at once.

When I hit play for the first time after all these years, and Layne's voice came on "Scary's on the wall..." I was like, "oh damn, I forgot about this."

We Die Young (that song) is a great song. It doesn't have that super special Jerry-sauce on it, imo. It's a tier down from their elite songs. It's close though.

Skipping Man in the Box, I come to Sea of Sorrow. I put this one with their elite songs. Some interesting lyrics in light of the whole "crippling depression" aspect.

I live tomorrow
You, I'll not follow
As you wallow
In a sea of sorrow

Bleed the Freak and I Can't Remember are a solid songs, but not elite.

Love, Hate, Love is an elite song. This took a few listens to realize.

It Ain't Like That is decent, not a fav on the album for me.

Sunshine (song about Jerry's mother)...I love this song. Not elite. Close!

Put You Down - solid. Real solid.

Confusion, and I Know Somethin (Bout You) - these are elite. Not sure why they have so few Spotify listens compared to the rest of the album, or why they were sequenced so late in the album. When Jerry and Layne began this collaboration, Layne had an idea to take the band in a more Faith No More type funk direction. I'm not sure, but I think the song "I Know Somethin" is a Layne song (maybe?). I would have loved to hear more of this type of sound, it's about as close as AIC came to rap rock (in the chorus). It's badass.

Real Thing - solid song, but subject matter is a little too drug-culture indulgent for me to love.

TLDR:

I'd add 4 more songs to the "elite" category: Sea of Sorrow, Love Hate Love, Confusion, and I Know Somethin. The rest of the album is solid.

Originally Posted by Apollo

I'd have to contest a point above. I don't consider AiC a metal band.

Take it up with Jerry!

In an interview or some such, he made a comment that AIC would 'always be metal'. I'm paraphrasing. This was, I think, around the time of the reunion and initial Duvall recording sessions.

As much as you and I might not look at AIC as metal, proper, compared to the Deaths and Obituarys of the world, the rest of the world would put them in the same box as a Black Sabbath.

I know what you mean though.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Take it up with Jerry!

In an interview or some such, he made a comment that AIC would 'always be metal'. I'm paraphrasing. This was, I think, around the time of the reunion and initial Duvall recording sessions.

As much as you and I might not look at AIC as metal, proper, compared to the Deaths and Obituarys of the world, the rest of the world would put them in the same box as a Black Sabbath.

I know what you mean though.

Yeah of course the definitions of what is and isn't metal get all blurred and there's a lot of gatekeeping which I am not a fan of.

If Jerry says they are metal that's good enough for me (I didn't know he claimed that). I just think compared to the metal bands of the 90s they don't come off as Metal. However obviously compared to the early Heavy Metal bands they would.


When I was younger and first immersing myself with learning guitar I loved this video, amazing tone he gets out of that guitar & amp:

Originally Posted by Apollo

If Jerry says they are metal that's good enough for me (I didn't know he claimed that).

I couldn't remember it exactly but I found it (wikipedia lol):

Although Alice in Chains has been labeled grunge by the mainstream media,[90][271] Jerry Cantrell identifies the band as primarily heavy metal. He told Guitar World in 1996, "We're a lot of different things ... I don't quite know what the mixture is, but there's definitely metal, blues, rock and roll, maybe a touch of punk. The metal part will never leave, and I never want it to."

Originally Posted by Apollo

Alice in Chains are an underrated band that combine excellent composition and guitarwork from Jerry Cantrell with Layne Staley's amazing voice.

I'd have to contest a point above. I don't consider AiC a metal band. Some of their songs are on the brink of Alternative/Sludge Metal but there's not enough dissonance and punch to their riffs for them to qualify as Metal in the 90s.

Just to add to a few songs mentioned above, Grind, Head Creeps and Again are great songs from their 1995 record. I think Jar of Flies is underrated too.

Nice they still get some recognition. Think it's been impossible for anyone to fill Layne Staley's large boots properly though.

Yea, ive seen people classify them as metal. I personally dont, they are more alternative/Grunge for me but if people feel they are metal so be it i just dont personally put them there.

I just skimmed the thread, good call on AIC. I would add “Again” to the list of amazing songs (unless I missed it).

Originally Posted by spikerman

I just skimmed the thread, good call on AIC. I would add “Again” to the list of amazing songs (unless I missed it).

You didn't miss it. I just haven't given it a relisten. I heard the "Tripod" album a few times when it came out, but I was more into other stuff at the time.

This is a nice time for me to listen with fresh ears.

I still need to hit SAP more thoroughly (spoiler: Am I Inside is making the cut) along with the rest of their catalog.

I'm tryna build the case that they have such a deep list of really, really solid songs.

I think they were one catchy song away from being a slam-dunk 'finalist'.

Good depressing band.

Not popular enough to be the "greatest" American Band, but I think they deserve a resurgence in popularity by way of hot topic shirts and going viral on tiktok and etc.