Thread: Metallica - GAH week 2 - 11.12.22

Originally Posted by Northman

Selling your integrity as a band for profit does not make you the greatest anything....

Does wanting to make your band more diverse sound-wise = selling your integrity?

Originally Posted by aberdien

Does wanting to make your band more diverse sound-wise = selling your integrity?

There is progression and then there is totally changing your identity as a band so yes.

Originally Posted by Northman

There is progression and then there is totally changing your identity as a band so yes.

What is the difference? Was Metallica really that different before 1 album compared to after?

And how much of it is "selling out" vs sucking after releasing a few strong albums, which is what happens to almost every band that has ever existed?

In terms of being the Greatest American band...Here's some quick wiki research on one of their grandpa years albums:

"Hardwired... to Self-Destruct debuted at number one on the Billboard 200, selling 291,000 album-equivalent units in its first week, of which 282,000 were pure album sales.[68] The remaining 9,000 units comprised 34,000 song purchases and 9.3 million streams. It was the third-largest debut of the year in the US on pure sales, behind Drake's Views and Beyoncé's Lemonade.[69]"

"Overall, the album was number one in 57 countries, entered the top three in 75 nations and the top five in 105 countries.[75]"

It takes something special to be mentioned in the same sentence as Drake and Beyonce in album sales. The band is gd massive. Has the national appeal, but also the global appeal of a heavyweight. They have critical acclaim, niche acclaim, popular acclaim, a well-known brand all around the world, and have stood the test of time in terms of relevance. I'm starting to think maybe this is the one...

Originally Posted by aberdien

I'm starting to think maybe this is the one...

I can say right now that they are going to overtake CCR.

I have misgivings, but they have put together enough that it is a sort of behemoth thing.

Abe, I've noticed a few thoughts of yours relate to sales, and I'm not sure how much sales should be given deference.

I agree it's not nothing.

I also don't want to be unduly swayed by it.

Because I don't know about y'all, but I don't usually buy shit I don't like. At least, I try not to.

It means something to open your wallet.

The reason why I think Metallica will not end up as "the one" is because I don't think Hetfield is gifted enough of a vocalist.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

I can say right now that they are going to overtake CCR.

I have misgivings, but they have put together enough that it is a sort of behemoth thing.

Recently a 5th grader in Guatemala asked me if we could listen to Metallica in class while working. Behemoth!

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Abe, I've noticed a few thoughts of yours relate to sales, and I'm not sure how much sales should be given deference.

I agree it's not nothing.

I also don't want to be unduly swayed by it.

Because I don't know about y'all, but I don't usually buy shit I don't like. At least, I try not to.

It means something to open your wallet.

Sales indicates popularity, which is necessary to be one of the Greatest American Bands.

In this instance I was just noticing how shocked I was to find that Metallica's 25 years past their prime album was notable enough to be mentioned near an in-their-prime Beyonce and Drake in terms of sales. Popularity is important, and Metallica has sustained popularity for decades, when metal and rock music has basically disappeared from the mainstream.

Originally Posted by aberdien

Sales indicates popularity, which is necessary to be one of the Greatest American Bands.

In this instance I was just noticing how shocked I was to find that Metallica's 25 years past their prime album was notable enough to be mentioned near an in-their-prime Beyonce and Drake in terms of sales. Popularity is important, and Metallica has sustained popularity for decades, when metal and rock music has basically disappeared from the mainstream.

I am also surprised.

I'd like to hear what North thinks, because I know he's cynical about the "music machine" that looks to these intellectual properties as cash streams. I sorta trust his cynicism a little bit on this matter.

The way you know Metallica sold out for $$ is to see how upset they were over people streaming their music on Napster.

All I'm saying is the 3 greatest UK bands have t-shirts sold in malls and walmarts all around the world, worn by people all around the world who probably might not be able to name their top 10 songs if asked...such things are not insignificant when considering the popular appeal of a band, and only the greatest bands reach that level.

Metallica is on that level.

Originally Posted by aberdien

All I'm saying is the 3 greatest UK bands have t-shirts sold in malls and walmarts all around the world, worn by people all around the world who probably might not be able to name their top 10 songs if asked...such things are not insignificant when considering the popular appeal of a band, and only the greatest bands reach that level.

Metallica is on that level.

How about some of the dogfish LSD-test factors?

or these?

Some factors to consider:

Personal (emotional?) connection with the music
Inventiveness
International penetration
Musicianship of individual members
How tight is the band (especially live)?
Did the band greatly influence the music to come?
Will the band be relevant in 100 years?
How much did the band benefit from the music publishing machine? (vs. intrinsic value)
Range of styles - was it all roots rock, or did they mix it up?
Did the band put out a lot of drek? (in addition to the hits)
Can you say it with a straight face?

Originally Posted by NightTrainLayne

The way you know Metallica sold out for $$ is to see how upset they were over people streaming their music on Napster.

Originally Posted by aberdien

What is the difference?

Band: Death

Started out as straight forward death metal but upon the release of human and following albums the band added progressive elements while retaining the core sound.


Band: Metallica

Started out as thrash, experimented on the Black Album before cutting their hair, style of clothes, and changing their sound entirely to rock fit in with the current mainstream.