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Thread: Metallica - GAH week 2 - 11.12.22

  1. #16
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    It should be noted that some diehard Nirvana fans thought Nirvana sold out with Nevermind. *food for thought*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    It should be noted that some diehard Nirvana fans thought Nirvana sold out with Nevermind. *food for thought*
    Those monsters should die hard...er....you know what I mean!

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    Quote Originally Posted by aberdien View Post
    One might argue that if they did not "sell out", they would not currently have the widespread popularity among normie non-metal fans in order to be considered in this discussion.
    I remember an interview James Hetfield and he respond3d to the “sell out” accusations… his response was pretty good.
    To paraphrase he said… we can’t play like we used to, we are older now, this is how we keep going…

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddiemac87 View Post
    I remember an interview James Hetfield and he respond3d to the “sell out” accusations… his response was pretty good.
    To paraphrase he said… we can’t play like we used to, we are older now, this is how we keep going…
    I think Metallica as a band were in their early to mid twenties when they wrote the black album and then Load so im not sure i would say they were old at that point. I think once the black album took off like it did they realized where the money market was and went from there. But other bands that had been playing at the same time as them, Testament, Exodus, Slayer, etc all kept playing like they used too even if they lost their way a bit in terms of sound in between. Even Megadeth has continued to play more aggressive music. I would have respected Hetfield more if he had just said he wanted to make money. Metal has never been the greatest way to make money and earn a living.

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    "sell out" is fine.

    Just don't suck.

    MJ's Thriller sold tf out. Hotel California. License to Ill.

    Just don't suck.

    Metallica didn't suck exactly, but they did when directly contrasted with what they had been to that point.

    Their devotees looked to them for a certain intensity. That reckless, driven, white hot fury of Metallica.

    They betrayed the expectations of their base. They renounced their citizenship and emigrated to the rich country.

    What I'm struggling with is how to view them. As one band, or two bands with the same name.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting
    "You know cos I just lost my parents--both my parents died in the same year...to this day, people come up to me and say 'my dad died and that album really meant a lot to me,' which is very nourishing {pats heart} for a songwriter to hear that your songs have a utility beyond just their own solace, that it actually helps other people."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgdriver View Post
    "sell out" is fine.

    Just don't suck.

    MJ's Thriller sold tf out. Hotel California. License to Ill.

    Just don't suck.

    Metallica didn't suck exactly, but they did when directly contrasted with what they had been to that point.

    Their devotees looked to them for a certain intensity. That reckless, driven, white hot fury of Metallica.

    They betrayed the expectations of their base. They renounced their citizenship and emigrated to the rich country.

    What I'm struggling with is how to view them. As one band, or two bands with the same name.
    2 bands with the same name. Cliff Burton wouldn’t have went for the stuff after Justice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    2 bands with the same name. Cliff Burton wouldn’t have went for the stuff after Justice.
    Oh **** no! Cliff is probably rolling in his grave at this point.

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    I'm struggling with how I feel.

    Sometimes I feel excessively heavy handed and want to say 'nah, you can't do that and still be the greatest. You can't do this kind of weird, legacy-tainting bait and switch and not be dinged points.' I remember my roommate in pilot training, Christine, throwing on Fuel in her Suburban and cranking it. She ******* loved it. I was thinking to myself...'god I miss Metallica, I wish they didn't go away.'

    But then, like right now, I look at the first four and change (Kill 'Em All, Ride, Master, Justice, Garage EP, Am I Evil & Blitzkrieg).

    It's 38 songs. That alone is enough for a legacy for most bands.

    Ok. Then you sorta *must* put Enter Sandman and Nothing Else Matters into the mix. It's fantasy to not do that. Man, I have some mixed feels on Nothing Else Matters. I'm playing it right now. It's definitely not a bad song. It's got that sort of Seger vibe that's tolerable. But it's like admiring how pretty your ex-girlfriend is when you see her on the arm of that douchey shallow popular dude.

    And I'm even starting to lukewarm up to some of the post-Justice stuff.

    The Garage, Inc. cover album--honestly never heard it until right now. If they did this right after Justice, man...I think it would slot into their legacy in a positive way. There are some highlights imo. Die, Die My Darling is a banger. Tuesday's Gone is kinda nice too. The Beatles did covers too!

    I'm kinda curious about this Lulu album collab with Lou Reed. I listened to one song (Mistress Dread) and it was weirdly compelling. Idk. There might be something here. I'm going to have to listen to that album a time or two, it's...do I hate it?

    I like these post-Justice songs....

    Unforgiven (I can imagine this song on Justice, is that wrong?)
    Whiskey in The Jar
    Frantic & St. Anger, although it's Korntallica. That's OK! I get the phony vibe North used to describe it, but I like these two songs ok enough.
    The Day That Never Comes (decent song, but what about that Band of Horses intro?)


    The Hardwired stuff is 30 years late, but better than never! Absolute bangers:

    Spit Out the Bone
    Moth Into Flame

    Some of the S&M stuff is worthy.



    If you rolled all the great post-Justice stuff into one big album, maybe that's how to approach it.
    Last edited by Hawgdriver; 11-14-2022 at 03:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting
    "You know cos I just lost my parents--both my parents died in the same year...to this day, people come up to me and say 'my dad died and that album really meant a lot to me,' which is very nourishing {pats heart} for a songwriter to hear that your songs have a utility beyond just their own solace, that it actually helps other people."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    Just figured i would give a quick input on the new record. I havent really liked anything by the band since the Black Album and havent really liked a full album since Master of Puppets. But the band has been controversial since their direction change musically with people liking or disliking the the change, etc. But i had a chance to listen to it today and here are my thoughts,

    Well, what do you know. The boys still have something left in the tank after all. No, this still isnt a Ride the Lightning or Master of Puppets as you get a blend and mix of everything they have done over the last 30 or so years. But, this certainly is better than anything they have done in the last 20 for me. Unlike the last two albums where i felt the aggression was forced rather from the heart this album felt more genuine in their approach. Even the songs that are more rock oriented sound like they put more creative thought behind it. Wont make my album of the year but i am incredibly impressed by their output here. From a more thrash perspective i enjoyed Hardwired, Atlas Rise, Here Comes Revenge, Spit Out the Bone. From the rock angle i enjoyed Manukind & Halo on Fire. Will post my rating this weekend for this but a much stronger effort from them in quite a while. Nice job gentlemen.


    Feel free to add your opinions once you have heard the record if you like.
    I'm glad this is where you landed on it, I feel the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting
    "You know cos I just lost my parents--both my parents died in the same year...to this day, people come up to me and say 'my dad died and that album really meant a lot to me,' which is very nourishing {pats heart} for a songwriter to hear that your songs have a utility beyond just their own solace, that it actually helps other people."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy! View Post
    *Crosses fingers*

    *chanting*

    And justice for all, and justice for all, and justice for all......
    lol...how'd that work out...
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting
    "You know cos I just lost my parents--both my parents died in the same year...to this day, people come up to me and say 'my dad died and that album really meant a lot to me,' which is very nourishing {pats heart} for a songwriter to hear that your songs have a utility beyond just their own solace, that it actually helps other people."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOtorboat View Post
    I swear, I'm the only fan of Metallica past The Black Album who's not afraid to admit to it.
    Thanks for your input!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting
    "You know cos I just lost my parents--both my parents died in the same year...to this day, people come up to me and say 'my dad died and that album really meant a lot to me,' which is very nourishing {pats heart} for a songwriter to hear that your songs have a utility beyond just their own solace, that it actually helps other people."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    I'll fight anyone who says Metallica sold out on the Black album... All they did was write an epic album that appealed to a shit-ton of people...
    Metallica sold out on the Black Album.

    They were my small-town hot af girlfriend that got into that limo with the douchey rich guy.

    Is she still hot af?

    Of course. Yeah, she dresses all classy and shit now; she was a dream in denim; these semicolons are for abe.

    Do I put X's in her eyes in all of her photos?

    Yes, I do.
    Last edited by Hawgdriver; 11-14-2022 at 01:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting
    "You know cos I just lost my parents--both my parents died in the same year...to this day, people come up to me and say 'my dad died and that album really meant a lot to me,' which is very nourishing {pats heart} for a songwriter to hear that your songs have a utility beyond just their own solace, that it actually helps other people."

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    What's more American than taking something fertile, ravaging it through avarice, and pissing off the natives!!??
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting
    "You know cos I just lost my parents--both my parents died in the same year...to this day, people come up to me and say 'my dad died and that album really meant a lot to me,' which is very nourishing {pats heart} for a songwriter to hear that your songs have a utility beyond just their own solace, that it actually helps other people."

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    I think you must try and separate your personal offense taken to the sell-out stuff and then you will be able to see the light that Metallica is definitely top 10, for sure top 5.

    If they didn't "sell out" they would be a niche metal band. They would be the Pixies. Great band, great legacy, but not popular enough to be the greatest. Whether you like the work post-sell out or not, it for sure sold and made them a lot of fans of people who say things like "I don't listen to metal...but I dig Metallica." That's no small feat!

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    Selling your integrity as a band for profit does not make you the greatest anything....

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