Thread: The Greatest American Hero (Band)

Originally Posted by King87

Holy ******* shit...you put in the work. I have to honor this effort and put this bitch on shuffle and listen to it over the weekend.

I woulda put Wu in there but not sure that's correct. I'm open to persuasion though.

I like the idea of moderating this debate rather than being a prime litigator. But who gives a ****. This is the court of hawg. Everyone wipes their feet at the door and then does a shot, and then we mix it up.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

I woulda put Wu in there but not sure that's correct. I'm open to persuasion though.

I like the idea of moderating this debate rather than being a prime litigator. But who gives a ****. This is the court of hawg. Everyone wipes their feet at the door and then does a shot, and then we mix it up.

The best argument I have is in the other thread.

The highest honor I can pay this playlist of yours is that I'm using it as my backdrop while I prepare for my D&D campaign tomorrow. The real ones know how high of an honor this is. You're a real one.

Originally Posted by King87

Holy ******* shit...you put in the work. I have to honor this effort and put this bitch on shuffle and listen to it over the weekend.

BTW...this is what I learned when building the compendium playlist of Greatest American Hero. I got to see how a lot of albums had only one song worth listening to (Sup, Journey). And some artists had nothing but bangers. And some just had a lot more listens than others. I think there is something to it--the data.

Eagles - definite contender. Huge body of quality work, super listenable top 50 songs. The 50th best song might probably beat most other band's 50th best song.
Tom Petty etc. - exact same comment, except probably even better
CCR - DAMN. Only like 4 years, and so many bangers. I gotta dive into the discog--it's short and sweet...and apparently MAD potent according to Spotify play count. This is a band you just play the album end to end, one album to the next, like Zep or the Beatles. I'll be curious to see how the general critique that "oh, it's just one song over and over" plays out.
RHCP - NGL. I think this may be the answer. I really think everyone needs to go into this with an eye toward RHCP. If Spotify data has any value, this whole thing is a two person race between CCR and RHCP.
Nirvana - I am curious to see if my opinion of them will improve!
Foo Fighters - Spotify thinks they should definitely be in the mix!
Doobie Bros - too many albums with a bunch of meh, but some great hits. Prolly not a contender.
Steely Dan - DEFINITELY a contender in the Abe "Nerd Dweeb" paradigm. This is my dark horse winner, and it's because they had such a diverse palette of songs, and the worst songs were still strong, different, and still stand up. Spotify data--the consistency from song to song, just the raw numbers--tells me that this is definitely a band that needs to be swished around in the mouth several times. Just ask De La Soul.
Lynyrd Skynyrd - Absolutely a prime contender. If this is a Kentucky Derby, this is a horse you might want to bet on.
Van Halen - I wanna see where the chips fall on this one. I don't want to punish a band because they have a few albums with only a couple of good songs on the album...VH is worthy. The pedigree is there.
Journey - I will be shocked if Journey ends up as the band...there's just a weirdness to the band's arc in terms of albums and such. But, having said that, they have some of the absolute best hits among all these bands.
Pearl Jam - Spotify likes them more than I expected. Let's consider them a legit contender. All the ingredients are there. I might add them to my own sort of "dark horse" list.
Hall & Oates - Some great hits, but I'm ok at this point with dropping them cold rn. The hits are epic. Give a listen. Tell me I'm wrong.
Temptations - Same as Hall & Oates.
Velvet Underground - DEFINITE dark horse contender. Everyone needs to dive in. This is what Spotify tells me. This isn't just some nerd choice. This is real.
Beach Boys - I'mma say this...I think they are a contender...but only in the sense that we all need to do our due diligence. I need to be pretty impressed by the parts of the catalog I don't know in order to take them seriously. Spotify says they are legit, but it's just a sort of vibe from looking at the entire discog.
Aerosmith - I am low-key SIKED (sic) to explore this. I know what I know from being born in 75...DO. NOT. SLEEP. ON. THEM.


Oh.

Ok.

Talking Heads.

I don't know shit about them. I do, but I also don't. Not in the "I've heard Remain in Light 50 times" sense. Spotify sorta indicates that I really, *really*, need to dive in. I am most stoked about this band. If we end this thing, and we all agree that Talking Heads is actually the best American Band...I think maybe we win the internet.

REM - We'll see. I'm open minded.
Metallica - Another horse in the race. I'm an old school 50+ time listener to Ride and Master..."Fight's On!"
Beastie Boys - Hm. I'll be surprised...but I also think they belong in one of these Kentucky Derby stalls.
Guns N' Roses - They have some songs. If the 20-40 best songs are solid...maybe they make some noise.
ZZ Top - Why tf doesn't Spotify have Deguello? Cheap Sunglasses and I Thank You are bangers. This is a legit band. Everything I said about Lynryd Skynyrd? Same here.
The Doors - I wanna leave them off the list...but then I remember how crazy good their songs are. So. Let's listen. They have a deep catalog. They deserve consideration.
KISS - idk bruv, wtf. Guess maybe 13m Spotify monthly listeners might know something.
Soundgarden - again, Spotify approves...and ... hm. I don't see it. But I also kinda do. I don't see it tbh. Mega dark horse.
Grateful Dead - they told me to do it
Pixies - 38 monthly Spotify listeners (not million, just 38) can't be wrong!!! (actually...they have some low-key CCR traits in terms of consistency among albums and abbreviated longevity, and they are currently more popular than I expected)
Jimi - sign me up. Spotify didn't inform me of anything in terms of modern trends. Deep catalog though. This will be interesting.
Styx - maybe we should drop this band. However. I was listening today. And I was sorta impressed way more than I expected. I think this at least deserves a deep look. If the catalog falters after the top 10 cuts, then we know. (I left Blue Oyster Cult off my playlist because it faltered when I went into the deep cuts. They were fine! But when your 10th best song is competing with, e.g., Aerosmith's 40th best song...)
Allman Bros - Spotify doesn't really think they have much of a chance. But we all know they have some incredible musicianship and should be given some look.
Imagine Dragons - Why not????
The Killers - Hey, Spotify really likes them too!
MGMT - Same!
The Cars, Earth, Wind & Fire - catalog is not that deep, so maybe they fall off quickly
Maroon 5 - Dude, Spotify likes them. Let's be open-minded.
Black Eyed Peas - same as Maroon 5
The rest, etc...

There's a lot of great American bands. Steve Miller band is a badass band. They really are. I am certain at some point people thought that the Steve Miller Band was the best American Band of all time. The Ramones? Idk, maybe. I never really listened to them.

So I'm excited to do some digging.

I like my Kentucky Derby metaphor. So I'll go all Vegas and post some odds. I'd like to be more of a moderator on this thing than a central participant, but we all know that I got some thoughts and maybe I should share 'em. I'm obviously passionate about it.

Ok, so. I got 43 bands here. In terms of betting odds, I'd say you have some favorites that will almost certainly win.

CCR
RHCP
Eagles
Tom Petty (etc.)

Then a sort of next level of SERIOUS contenders:

Lynyrd Skynyrd
Steely Dan
Aerosmith
Nirvana
Talking Heads
Van Halen
Pearl Jam
Foo Fighters
Velvet Underground
REM
Beach Boys
Metallica
Guns N' Roses
Jimi
Bruce Springsteen

Then we get into our dark-horse contenders:

ZZ Top
Beastie Boys
Pixies
Earth, Wind & Fire
Black Eyed Peas
TOTO
Ramones
Maroon 5 (dude. I know)

And then some that we really don't think have the goods...but maybe we are surprised. Let them run.

Imagine Dragons
The Killers
The Doors
Allman Bros
MGMT
The Cars
KISS
Soundgarden
Journey
Hall & Oates
Doobie Bros
Temptations
Grateful Dead
Styx
System of a Down

Originally Posted by King87

The best argument I have is in the other thread.

I enjoyed that argument. I was mad persuaded. Thank you for reminding me of its potency. Wu is there.

The comment with Maroon 5 absolutely killed me. I'm digesting the rest of the meaty post, btw.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

I enjoyed that argument. I was mad persuaded. Thank you for reminding me of its potency. Wu is there.

Wu-Tang is for the Hawg!

Originally Posted by King87

The comment with Maroon 5 absolutely killed me. I'm digesting the rest of the meaty post, btw.

I mean it, though. Adam Levine is crazy talented. I respect them as musicians. They aite.

A buddy of mine told me that Dream Theater is the best American band and it's not close. I want to do that...but...idk. I don't think a wide audience will bite off on it. At the same time, he's sorta right.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

I mean it, though. Adam Levine is crazy talented. I respect them as musicians. They aite.

A buddy of mine told me that Dream Theater is the best American band and it's not close. I want to do that...but...idk. I don't think a wide audience will bite off on it. At the same time, he's sorta right.

Dream Theater is the band that's like "look what we can do. You can't do this. You will NEVER be able to do this. We make high-end theory-crafting-music for fun. We're geniuses." They are, to use a football term, the best at designing plays in the game. Because musical theory is a thing, a real thing, they have an avenue to make that argument, under certain criteria. It's kind of like they're Dan Marino: no one grades out as better at passing than Dan if you adjust for era. But something was missing in his reality. But if the criteria is that simple, and that's not a bad thing, there's a fair argument.

Originally Posted by King87

Dream Theater is the band that's like "look what we can do. You can't do this. You will NEVER be able to do this. We make high-end theory-crafting-music for fun. We're geniuses." They are, to use a football term, the best at designing plays in the game. Because musical theory is a thing, a real thing, they have an avenue to make that argument, under certain criteria. It's kind of like they're Dan Marino: no one grades out as better at passing than Dan if you adjust for era. But something was missing in his reality. But if the criteria is that simple, and that's not a bad thing, there's a fair argument.

That's also how this sort of thing has value. We make a preposterous claim that turns out to have merit. Perhaps the claim doesn't hold--but having considered the value of this new thing, our overall worldview shifts.

I see that with Dream Theater. I'm not there, personally...but my exposure has been only because of the intensity of his (well-founded) claim.

I know many of us have our own claims. So, that's what this is about. Just being open minded and revisiting an old horse.

I think the "problem" with Dream Theater is that it's a bit too mathy and hectic (and metal) for wide appeal. But once it clicks, it reveals startling grace and beauty.

They get a fair amount of hate, but Greenday should be at least mentioned.

Originally Posted by Timmy!

They get a fair amount of hate, but Greenday should be at least mentioned.

Good call.

I was telling a friend about Op Ivy, one of my fav punk/ska bands. And she loved them.

Turns out, there's a dude who started the Berkeley punk scene (i.e. Op Ivy), and he was the dude that got Green Day going. When Green Day was pre-teen. Pretty cool stuff. Lookout Records.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Records

Green Day has 22m monthly on Spotify...so...worth a spin at the fairground.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

That's also how this sort of thing has value. We make a preposterous claim that turns out to have merit. Perhaps the claim doesn't hold--but having considered the value of this new thing, our overall worldview shifts.

I see that with Dream Theater. I'm not there, personally...but my exposure has been only because of the intensity of his (well-founded) claim.

I know many of us have our own claims. So, that's what this is about. Just being open minded and revisiting an old horse.

I think the "problem" with Dream Theater is that it's a bit too mathy and hectic (and metal) for wide appeal. But once it clicks, it reveals startling grace and beauty.

This experiment mirrors the value of a legitimate philosophy class where at a certain point you have accept the values of an opposing argument and vice versa. Most idea, or thoughts have some value. How much can be debated, but a fair and honest debate in and of itself is usually a good thing. Good faith has to exist, though.

Dream Theater is useful because their theorycrafting at least shows us what is possible. They could also be compared to the combine where a player, regardless of if they'll pan out to their natural gifts, is measured. Granted they have artistic merit and it's not completely as soulless as mere measurements. The first time I was exposed to them it came from a guy who wanted to be the smartest person in the room. But the fact they attract some of those folks isn't an indictment on their music.

The gorgeous thing about music is that 50 years from now they might be huge. You can be ahead of your time. Music has been found to be a language; stands to reason it might take time for us to understand the message.

I...almost feel pretentious about writing that...so keep in mind I'm eating a t.v. dinner and drinking diet coke right now.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

It galls me that Nirvana is in this conversation. It really does. I never loved them anywhere near as much as PJ, Soundgarden, and AIC. I grew up where they grew up at around the same time. To me, they are the one catchy grunge song that stole the spotlight.

But...24 million monthly listeners. To be relevant now is a data point that must be given attention. For comparison:

RHCP - 26m
Metallica - 22m
Aerosmith - 18m
Eagles - 17m
Earth, Wind & Fire - 14m
Bruce - 13m
SOAD - 13m
MGMT - 12m
Beach Boys - 10m
Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers - 6m (14m when combined with solo act, which includes Full Moon Fever and Wildflowers)
Steely Dan - 5m
Styx (who I'm listening to rn, and damn they are tight af and such songcraft!) - 4m

It's just a data point. A measurement like this, above, highlights one-hit wonders. But...hits are super, super important.

Until we actually have a hard and fast definition of 'best band', which is impossible really, we just have to use common sense. If a band still has contemporary relevance in this somewhat anti-rock era, that points toward having long-lasting relevance.

Long-lasting relevance might be a reasonable factor when you call something a 'best band'.

PS -- Too Much Time on My Hands is a great song!

I still think there is a difference between being "popular" and being "best". But i guess that is just me. There are many popular artists that are really not that great in my opinion as i find many music fans easy to please with what i call "ear candy". There is a difference in my opinion from artist such as Cisco (i think that is how you spell his name) and Prince in terms of actual talent yet Cisco can still be "popular". While i certainly think that Nirvana was talented i just dont think that 2 good albums constitutes as a great legacy as a band. Influential yes, best not really.

Originally Posted by King87

I never thought I'd see the anti-Terrell Davis argument being made here of all places.

Bwhahahahahahahahaahahahahaha

You ******* numbskull

I knew you would bring this up. ******* dick.

Its the one contradiction i have that i have thought about the last 2 days while discussing this shit.


Since its about MUSIC.

Megadeth
Slayer
Lamb of God
Pantera
Death
Type O Negative
Mastodon

Tool
Korn
Limp Bizkit
Slipknot
Linkin Park
Disturbed
Rage Against the Machine

Ratt
Motley Crue
Dokken
Twisted Sister

I figured you'd spot that!!!