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Thread: Who is the best WR all time? In their prime.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgdriver View Post



    This gets to how I could more precisely frame the question.

    Here it is.

    With the benefit of hindsight--of knowing how their careers would play out,
    And with peak Peyton Manning (or whatever perfect QB you think would max the WR)
    Against the best defenses in the league
    With just one year to make a go at a championship on a solid team

    Which WR (or receiver if you want to say Gronk, etc) at the top of their game do you pick first?
    Pheww thats still tough but ill try.

    Moss is out mainly because he is a loose cannon and you need a WR who is going to be there on every play whether the ball comes to him or not.
    Rice would also probably be out although i do feel he is the best overall receiver ever. But he had some of the greatest QBs to work with as well.
    Andre Johnson is out, not because he isnt talented but he was also plagued with injuries.

    And i cant think of any other receiver really on Megatron's level in terms athleticism and talent. And as much as i give credit for Stafford at finally winning a title i still consider him below a lot of the alltime QB greats. So the fact that Calvin was able to put up the numbers he did in Detroit is pretty impressive all on its own.

    So in the end if im choosing a WR its probably going to be Megatron because i know at the very least if i dont have a top tier QB im at least going to get 100% from him every game regardless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgdriver View Post
    ^yas! This dude gets me.

    Imagine you are the Megatron who blew off the combine, smoked a bowl, suited up, and one day decided no one could cover you. Then you got bored and got a DUI.

    I'm talkin dudes that may not be HOF worthy, but when they were *on* it was unreal. And not just a DB mismatch or a schematic flaw exploited.

    I sorta wonder if Andre Johnson is getting overlooked, even above the 'tron.
    Andre Johnson suffered the same fate a guy like Allen Robinson deals with today. Amazing talent with nothing at QB to help him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgdriver View Post
    It's on me for not framing the question as well as possible. But at least in the discussion it helps tease out exactly what I'm trying to ask. It shows I haven't thought about it deeply enough, or clearly enough.

    I'll frame it more precisely.

    Before that, I wanted to sorta agree with you on the first 6 years and stats, but also draw a distinction. The stats do a good job of showing 'unstoppable' because the stats are really what is trying to be stopped. It was obvious that these WRs were massively talented and had to be accounted for by the time they hit their peak. But they still found a way.

    On the other hand, stats can get crazy based on a single defensive lapse (hello free 80 yards)--now maybe the WR induced the lapse, or maybe there was confusion on assignment, or maybe the OC had out-schemed the coverage. There are some games when a WR goes off, and it really doesn't have to do with the WR as much as the defense being easily exploited. Peyton Manning could just deliver it to Reggie Wayne at will against the Broncos, then Shanny decided he'd seen enough and got Champ, D-Will, and Foxworth.

    That might be a reason why we haven't said much about Harrison and Wayne--the Peyton Manning effect.

    Just saying that stats do tell a good story, but if we base it exclusively on stats, we are going to miss these kinds of things:

    A 0-1 reception game because the WR was always drawing two defenders, allowing easy targets to other receivers. Yeah, he was stopped, but if stopping the WR means throwing the kitchen sink at him, was it worth it?

    A WR with a crap QB on a bad, lifeless team. Looking at you, Randy Moss & Aaron Brooks. Was Randy in his 'prime' or at his peak? Maybe at age 29 he was past it, but his 23 TD season the year afterward showed that he still had mad game.

    WRs on bad teams who rack up stats in the 4th Q.

    WRs who played in divisions with bad secondaries they would see twice a year. This probably evens out, but let's look at some of the best WR seasons to get a feel for it (I'm going to use the NY/A as the ranking of passing defense, lower means better defense). Picking at random.

    1998 Moss - GB (1), TB (7), Det (16), Chi (27) (solid)
    1993 Rice - NO (4), Atl (28-DFL), LA Rams (27) (hmm)
    2012 'Tron - GB (7), Min (10), Chi (4) (overachiever)

    Yeah, it's just 6 or 8 games of the year, but it matters. We are so stat-centric that this discussion begins with the premise told by those stats. We don't even question it, we assume the stats are the truth. Yeah, we can mentally adjust our position based on this nuance--but we are only moving it a little bit, and we start with what the stats say.

    Imagine there were *no* stats.

    This gets to how I could more precisely frame the question.

    Here it is.

    With the benefit of hindsight--of knowing how their careers would play out,
    And with peak Peyton Manning (or whatever perfect QB you think would max the WR)
    Against the best defenses in the league
    With just one year to make a go at a championship on a solid team

    Which WR (or receiver if you want to say Gronk, etc) at the top of their game do you pick first?
    I go Elway and Megatron.
    Elway can run it and bomb it 80 yards down field. He can also make the tight window throws.

    Megatron because he can run straight ahead, go over the middle and hit the jump balls. He can also block on any designed Elway runs.

    Elway/Tron for me.
    The Plan at the moment:

    Draft: Trade a 3rd and 6th this year to a team to move up and get a 2nd next year (this will happen).

    Players I want:
    Jake Ferguson (Jake Butt) or Jelani Woods or Jeremy Ruckert or Cade Otten (owen daniels) at TE- All 4th rd or later.
    Troy Anderson LB 3rd/4th rd (yay Timmy!)
    Neil Farrell, JR DL- run stuffer- bye purcell

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    Quote Originally Posted by underrated29 View Post
    I go Elway and Megatron.
    Elway can run it and bomb it 80 yards down field. He can also make the tight window throws.

    Megatron because he can run straight ahead, go over the middle and hit the jump balls. He can also block on any designed Elway runs.

    Elway/Tron for me.
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    It's objectively Jerry Rice.

    But subjectively I would say Randy Moss.

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    Larry Fitzgerald or nah?

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    *barf* Tyreek Hill?

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    Props to Hawg for including prime Julio. Prime Julio did bad things to DBs. Very bad things.

    If you want an interesting name, look at Sterling Sharpe before his injury.

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    He played for the Raiders but Tim Brown was a monster.


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    Do you all remember when Rice got butthurt at Moss for breaking his TD record?

    But Rice did it in fewer games with a handful of QBs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King87 View Post
    Do you all remember when Rice got butthurt at Moss for breaking his TD record?

    But Rice did it in fewer games with a handful of QBs.
    I think Rice got butthurt about a few things, it was one of the things that lead to Jerry leaving SF after TO started to become a thing out there.

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    How about some Hopkins?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    I think Rice got butthurt about a few things, it was one of the things that lead to Jerry leaving SF after TO started to become a thing out there.
    Sidenote: Niners had a great QB run from Montana-Young-Garcia, who was an above average QB in his own right.

    Rice had retired when Moss broke his record and it was such a bad look for him, imo. I do remember him being a bit of a pouty ho in some regards.

    Rice was so good that people argue he's the best football player of all-time. What a stud.

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    Garcia was not great, plus, he looked like a burn victim.
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    Draft
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Garcia was not great, plus, he looked like a burn victim.
    I said Garcia was above average, which he was. Read better you old ho.

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