Thread: Educate me on the New HC options. Who do we want and why?

Originally Posted by Strafen

Well, he does check all the boxes. It’ll all come down to the interview with Quinn when they find out if his philosophy aligns with what the Broncos are looking in a head coach to lead this team...

I’m wondering if the Broncos are rushing to interview Quinn, and give him an offer because it seems McCarthy may be on his way out.

Originally Posted by Nomad

I’m wondering if the Broncos are rushing to interview Quinn, and give him an offer because it seems McCarthy may be on his way out.

I doubt the Cowboys would fire McCarthy. I understand there’s little room for error when working for Jerry Jones. The players kept making stupid penalties that cost them the game. Yes, I suppose you can link that to coaching, but as an NFL player, if you don’t know what you’re playing for and what’s at stake, you’ve got no business playing football

Originally Posted by Nomad

#1 priority for Paton is he’s looking for a HC with excellent leadership abilities.

that's a shame. . . we tried that already, and it got us nowhere. . . JMO, but i wish to hell he was looking for a guy with BRAINS-- and preferably some guts, and offensive acumen. . . the HC who has great organizational skills but isn't top notch at X's and O's is the game manager QB of HCs, IMO. . . hiring mike tomlin is fine, when you also have a legit QB, and dick lebeau to run your defense. . . but if you hire dan quinn, you're pretty much putting the entire onus for improvement on his OC hire, who is going to be one of two types. . . scenario one is a wet behind the ears guy like mike mcdaniel or kafka (IF we can even get one of them) who has never called plays or designed an offense. . . it's basically hiring skangs all over again, and hoping it works out better-- in which case somebody probably hires him away from us at the end of the year anyway. . . the other option is one of the shitty vet OCs kicking around the league. . . mike mccoy, bill musgrave, pat shurmur, mike mularkey, dirk koetter, bill o'brien, doug marrone, etc. . . you guys know the list. . .

but that's pretty much where we're at right now. . . is quinn going to hire a DC who can do a better job than fangio, who just fielded the number one scoring defense in the league? extremely unlikely. . . more like we're going to end up changing defensive fronts /schemes, and wasting a bunch of picks and FA dollars getting the new DC guys who fit his system, when we SHOULD be pouring every resource into fixing the offense for once. . . i just can't see the sense in it-- we keep trying to zig while the league is zagging, and it keeps failing. . . maybe it's time for the donks to stop thinking they're the smartest guy in the room, and they can contend with the KCs, tampas and green bays with defense and the run game. . . better clock management can help in some situations, but it's not generating 4-6 more points per game. . . if the new OC is going to be the dude who's truly responsible for getting us back to being a competitive team, then just skip the middle manager, make that guy your HC, and at least choose from the best options on the market. . . in a division that has mahomes, herbert, carr, reid, a hyper-aggressive staley (and could be staring down the barrel of adding jim harbaugh), i just can't buy that doubling down on the old "a punt is not a bad play" philosophy is going to get us anywhere besides last place. . .

i just don't see it. . . leadership's fine, but we need brains and talent. . . and a legit plan at QB! if quinn went .500 with prime years matt ryan (and he was below .500 after shanahan left), then we can't very well expect him to go win big with the horseshit we've been rolling out at QB. . .

Originally Posted by Nomad

I’m wondering if the Broncos are rushing to interview Quinn, and give him an offer because it seems McCarthy may be on his way out.

If they’re going to fire McCarthy, Quinn will probably be aware of that. And if he wants that job over the Denver job, he’ll tell Denver to wait. So I don’t think “rushing” will make any difference. Just like it didn’t make any difference when people were in a hurry to have Fangio fired so the Broncos could get a “head start” on hiring somebody.

Originally Posted by dogfish

that's a shame. . . we tried that already, and it got us nowhere. . . JMO, but i wish to hell he was looking for a guy with BRAINS-- and preferably some guts, and offensive acumen. . . the HC who has great organizational skills but isn't top notch at X's and O's is the game manager QB of HCs, IMO. . . hiring mike tomlin is fine, when you also have a legit QB, and dick lebeau to run your defense. . . but if you hire dan quinn, you're pretty much putting the entire onus for improvement on his OC hire, who is going to be one of two types. . . scenario one is a wet behind the ears guy like mike mcdaniel or kafka (IF we can even get one of them) who has never called plays or designed an offense. . . it's basically hiring skangs all over again, and hoping it works out better-- in which case somebody probably hires him away from us at the end of the year anyway. . . the other option is one of the shitty vet OCs kicking around the league. . . mike mccoy, bill musgrave, pat shurmur, mike mularkey, dirk koetter, bill o'brien, doug marrone, etc. . . you guys know the list. . .

but that's pretty much where we're at right now. . . is quinn going to hire a DC who can do a better job than fangio, who just fielded the number one scoring defense in the league? extremely unlikely. . . more like we're going to end up changing defensive fronts /schemes, and wasting a bunch of picks and FA dollars getting the new DC guys who fit his system, when we SHOULD be pouring every resource into fixing the offense for once. . . i just can't see the sense in it-- we keep trying to zig while the league is zagging, and it keeps failing. . . maybe it's time for the donks to stop thinking they're the smartest guy in the room, and they can contend with the KCs, tampas and green bays with defense and the run game. . . better clock management can help in some situations, but it's not generating 4-6 more points per game. . . if the new OC is going to be the dude who's truly responsible for getting us back to being a competitive team, then just skip the middle manager, make that guy your HC, and at least choose from the best options on the market. . . in a division that has mahomes, herbert, carr, reid, a hyper-aggressive staley (and could be staring down the barrel of adding jim harbaugh), i just can't buy that doubling down on the old "a punt is not a bad play" philosophy is going to get us anywhere besides last place. . .

i just don't see it. . . leadership's fine, but we need brains and talent. . . and a legit plan at QB! if quinn went .500 with prime years matt ryan (and he was below .500 after shanahan left), then we can't very well expect him to go win big with the horseshit we've been rolling out at QB. . .

I see your point, and mostly agree, almost entirely actually. However, I think the counterpoint would be that the folks getting interviews all have that talent, they wouldn't have risen to the point of getting an interview if they didn't show the acumen and show better than their peers around the league, right?

One would hope anyhow. Now, from a group of folks who all crossed the talent threshold to even get an interview it would be devastating to get a guy who is too far over the top Xs and Os and not enough leadership, see one Josh McDaniels and his tenure here. But going too far leadership and not enough Xs and Os leaves us 9-7 or 7-9 and picking middle of the pack every year.

I hope George finds the right hire and they work well together...

In George we (I) trust!

I think we’re all perhaps overly worried about, and focused on, the HC hire but it’s the coordinators that may be more important. It’s possible that this hire is going to be more of a CEO type of HC and the coordinators will run their respective units. And this may be why they’re interviewing so many guys who don’t seem like HC candidates. So I’m not going to get worked up about about a possible Quinn hire until I know who the coordinators will be, particularly the OC since he’s a defense guy. Quinn had a pretty good staff in Atlanta and hopefully he’d do something similar in Denver.

Originally Posted by Mozzafiato

If they’re going to fire McCarthy, Quinn will probably be aware of that. And if he wants that job over the Denver job, he’ll tell Denver to wait. So I don’t think “rushing” will make any difference. Just like it didn’t make any difference when people were in a hurry to have Fangio fired so the Broncos could get a “head start” on hiring somebody.

I’m just getting my news from various reports. It’ll be an interesting week.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si....9ers-interview

Further to my earlier point…

Originally Posted by Mozzafiato

Probably true although Fangio is just bad. Quinn will pretend he is good, start out great and then collapse and choke in the end whereas Fangio just chokes from beginning to end.

Originally Posted by Northman

Do it Dallas, Do it!

please god!

Originally Posted by Davii

Now, from a group of folks who all crossed the talent threshold to even get an interview it would be devastating to get a guy who is too far over the top Xs and Os and not enough leadership, see one Josh McDaniels and his tenure here.

for the record, i don't actually think mcdaniels is all that smart. . . he hasn't had success anywhere besides new england, where he has belichick spoon-feeding him all the answers before the test. . .

Originally Posted by Mozzafiato

I think we’re all perhaps overly worried about, and focused on, the HC hire but it’s the coordinators that may be more important. It’s possible that this hire is going to be more of a CEO type of HC and the coordinators will run their respective units. And this may be why they’re interviewing so many guys who don’t seem like HC candidates. So I’m not going to get worked about about a possible Quinn hire until I know who the coordinators will be, particularly the OC since he’s a defense guy. Quinn had a pretty good staff in Atlanta and hopefully he’d do something similar in Denver.

i understand this POV to a certain degree, but i have major reservations about it. . . primarily, the gaping chasm of difference in the quality of available offensive and defensive coordinators. . . if you hire an inexperienced offensive coach, every single year there are legitimately proven DCs available. . . from vic fangio to wade philips, dick lebeau, dan quinn, mike zimmer, jim schwartz, mike pettine, romeo crennel, leslie frazier, todd bowles, lovie smith, and on and on. . . every one of those guys is a vet with decades of experience, including head coaching turns. . . if a young HC has to lean a little on a guy like that for leadership and game management, fine. . .

by comparison, what are the options for dan quinn when he goes to hire an OC? some no-name whose only qualifications are holding reid / mcvey / shanahan's clipboard for a couple years. . . and then knowing that he'll be hired away within two years if he is any good, leaving quinn to turn to steve sarkisian, exactly like he did when his atlanta tenure went down the tubes. . . i'm just not a fan, any more than i'm a fan of making any substantial changes on defense when there's no need, and no likely benefit. . . that kind of turnover on the offensive staff is an absolute disaster if you're trying to develop a young QB, which we're probably going to be forced into if we don't want to run orton / keenum / flacco / teddy 5.0 out there. . . i just think you're vastly more likely to succeed with a offensive mind who's bringing his scheme and terminology with him, who's your HC and can't be poached. . . gimme hackett with donatell keeping the defense intact all day. . .

even fortune 500 companies who hire a new CEO look for the right guy to run their desired business model. . . as far as i'm concerned, the denver broncos business model has to be fixing their busted-ass offense (the passing game specifically) if they have any intention of competing at a championship level in today's NFL. . . after looking at quinn's three OC hires at his last gig, plus his overall win-loss record with a top ten QB, i simply do not have any faith at all that he's a good choice to run that business model. . .

I believe the term leadership gets thrown around when you think someone is solid, you like them, and you feel like the hire is safe.

Or, in other words, it is often a cop out.

Originally Posted by Mozzafiato

Further to my earlier point…

he hired three OCs in atlanta, and two of them were nothing special at all. . . and his defenses were straight up horrendous. . . how is that an "excellent" staff?

you know what nobody ever says about andy reid or sean payton? "man, that guy has a fantastic staff!"

the fact that woody already leaked a potential quinn staff makes me think they're already locked in on hiring him, but that doesn't mean i have to like it. . . if they think that pumping up his choice of subordinates is some fantastic selling point for this guy as a candidate, i think they're going to be disappointed in the results. . .