Thread: Training Camp starts today!!! - Updates and thoughts here

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

Well discussing and debating topics is literally the entire point of a message board. If you want to actually have an honest discussion on Lock I'm game. If you're going to come in here and be a sourpuss because we aren't all singing kumbaya about how awesome Lock is, that's not something I'm particularly interested in engaging in.

You're such a drama queen. Sourpuss? None of us has said anything remotely about how awesome Lock is at this stage. We know Bridgewater ain't it. We have invested time in Lock and he does have some talent. He hasn't had the chance to develop like most QBs due mostly to Covid. We would like to see him be the man this season because he is really all we have. Bridgewater gets us 7-10 to 9-8 with this team if we stay healthy. Lock has some potential. Manning doesn't just waste his time because he's a nice guy. I want to see Lock this season sink or swim. If he fails we draft his replacement.

Originally Posted by Canmore

You're such a drama queen. Sourpuss? None of us has said anything remotely about how awesome Lock is at this stage. We know Bridgewater ain't it.

Reread this thread.

lmao Wave is 'objective'.

Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56

That’s not entirely true, Wave. You’ve kinda shown your hand and essentially declared that you expected TB to win the competition and be the starter before this even took place. Now you’re allowing your irritation at J10H1’s annoying fanboi posting to get under your skin so much you’re right at the precipice of screaming, “Fine!, now I hope Lock fails miserably so you’ll shut up and leave and I don’t have to hear your stupid fanboiness anymore!!!!” I can sense it about you. He’s gotten under your skin the way the Tebow fanbois got under most of our skins back in the day. You’ve just got to remember to try to be objective but it’s hard in this case because of the constant negative media over Lock not being Aaron Rodgers or Pat Mahomes in his first year (neither of them was, either) on one side who only see the bad and the incessant fanboi drivel spewing on the other driving the wedge further.

Deep breath and let the process play out, brother. You know what they say about arguing with a certain type of folk…

I actually don't expect TB to win the competition and never have. If it's close at all I think the coaches will go with Lock. Lock would have to be awful in camp not to get the job, and thus far he hasn't been. That doesn't mean I think he'll be good when live bullets start flying.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

lmao Wave is 'objective'.

Ultimately I just want the Broncos to win. If I'm wrong and Lock leads us to the promised land, I'll happily let Joe, Shane, and JH shove it down my throat for the rest of time. I'm just not going to lie to myself about what my eyes tell me.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

I actually don't expect TB to win the competition and never have. If it's close at all I think the coaches will go with Lock. Lock would have to be awful in camp not to get the job, and thus far he hasn't been. That doesn't mean I think he'll be good when live bullets start flying.

Are you starting to think he's maybe too dumb? I am. I really want to be wrong and be shown why I'm soooo, so wrong about that.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Are you starting to think he's maybe too dumb? I am. I really want to be wrong and be shown why I'm soooo, so wrong about that.

As a box of hammers. At least for a qb. Can’t get past his first read.

Originally Posted by atwater27

As a box of hammers. At least for a qb. Can’t get past his first read.

Yeah, the good ones at the NFL level are more like seasoned offensive coordinators who are athletic enough to pull the levers and get a ball somewhere. And the great ones do that and are athletic as heck.

Lock not being able to parse a defense and anticipate would be a huge problem going forward. MO has shown this pretty clearly with video, and then I've gone back to watch a ton of his throws (I'm no expert, just some dude) and couldn't find anything to refute MO's concern.

But from Lock's perspective, from any rookie's perspective, it's drinking from a firehose trying to master a new offense--and forget trying to learn the nuance of every NFL defense that you'll see. So maybe with more reps he'll nail it. This could happen!

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Yeah, the good ones at the NFL level are more like seasoned offensive coordinators who are athletic enough to pull the levers and get a ball somewhere. And the great ones do that and are athletic as heck.

Lock not being able to parse a defense and anticipate would be a huge problem going forward. MO has shown this pretty clearly with video, and then I've gone back to watch a ton of his throws (I'm no expert, just some dude) and couldn't find anything to refute MO's concern.

But from Lock's perspective, from any rookie's perspective, it's drinking from a firehose trying to master a new offense--and forget trying to learn the nuance of every NFL defense that you'll see. So maybe with more reps he'll nail it. This could happen!

if he memorized playbooks instead of jeezy lyrics that would be a start

Bridgewater is Kyle Orton 2.0. More mobile but otherwise the same kind of guy. Will check down on 3rd and 4 for a 2 yard gain. He has never thrown more than 15 TDs in a season. I like the guy as a person but he's just another lost season if he's your starting QB.

With Lock at least there's a glimmer of hope that he can be the guy long term.

Originally Posted by atwater27

if he memorized playbooks instead of jeezy lyrics that would be a start

To be fair to Lock (but I hate him amirite?) I don't think laziness is his issue like it was with Lynch. It seems like he's trying to put in the work, is just a matter if he's capable of becoming a great player with said work. And I clearly have my doubts about those abilities.

Originally Posted by chazoe60

Bridgewater is Kyle Orton 2.0. More mobile but otherwise the same kind of guy. Will check down on 3rd and 4 for a 2 yard gain. He has never thrown more than 15 TDs in a season. I like the guy as a person but he's just another lost season if he's your starting QB.

With Lock at least there's a glimmer of hope that he can be the guy long term.

Something has definitely gone horribly wrong if TB is the week 1 starter. Thus far it seems like Lock has done well enough in camp to keep on that trajectory of getting the job. But if we get off to another slow September start I don't think he'll have a very long leash.

Originally Posted by atwater27

As a box of hammers. At least for a qb. Can’t get past his first read.

Yes and no.

I dont think he's dumb at all. And he does get past his first read, buuuuut he does not process quickly. I also do not think he fully recognizes what he sees. I had great high hopes for him when he said he knew the playback and can now focus on reading defenses, but he only reads like 30% imo.....(dont ask how I arrived at that figure).

One reason why I love romo as an announcer is he sees the defense and then says expect this play here or look for this player to get open etc. I know many dont like it but I love it. Tony can tell that in 3 seconds looking at the D. And that is why he was as good as he was as a undrafted qb.

Do we think lock or Ted or any other mediocre qb could do that if they called games? No. Imo nadda.

Now for lock it could just be more experience, but with the entire off season and working with Peyton, imo, if he had the gift he'd be showing it. Hrs not. Maybe not yet. In 5 years he could and that's why I see him as a tannehjll or Fitzpatrick. Its going to take him a while to get there and then he'll need the right system, then he could be good to great.

Broncos country and the front office are not going to give him that. This is why I say our qb is not on our roster. We will trade for Rodgers next year and ride him until we can do loke the chiefs and move all the chips in to move up for a top qb.

Originally Posted by underrated29

Yes and no.

I dont think he's dumb at all. And he does get past his first read, buuuuut he does not process quickly. I also do not think he fully recognizes what he sees. I had great high hopes for him when he said he knew the playback and can now focus on reading defenses, but he only reads like 30% imo.....(dont ask how I arrived at that figure).

One reason why I love romo as an announcer is he sees the defense and then says expect this play here or look for this player to get open etc. I know many dont like it but I love it. Tony can tell that in 3 seconds looking at the D. And that is why he was as good as he was as a undrafted qb.

Do we think lock or Ted or any other mediocre qb could do that if they called games? No. Imo nadda.

Now for lock it could just be more experience, but with the entire off season and working with Peyton, imo, if he had the gift he'd be showing it. Hrs not. Maybe not yet. In 5 years he could and that's why I see him as a tannehjll or Fitzpatrick. Its going to take him a while to get there and then he'll need the right system, then he could be good to great.

Broncos country and the front office are not going to give him that. This is why I say our qb is not on our roster. We will trade for Rodgers next year and ride him until we can do loke the chiefs and move all the chips in to move up for a top qb.

Even Tannehill was putting up very decent numbers by year two. I was recently looking at his Miami stats and they weren't nearly as terrible as the narrative about him is now. By year 2 he was putting up 4k yards, 60% completions, and mid 20s TDs. If Lock's numbers this year mirrored Tannehill's second year I'd be thrilled.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

Even Tannehill was putting up very decent numbers by year two. I was recently looking at his Miami stats and they weren't nearly as terrible as the narrative about him is now. By year 2 he was putting up 4k yards, 60% completions, and mid 20s TDs. If Lock's numbers this year mirrored Tannehill's second year I'd be thrilled.

Tannehill was kinda always a stud, but got Carr'ed a little bit. Like Steve Young a tiny bit, not saying Tannehill is a first ballot HOF qb, just saying that Young looked like warmed-over ass in Tampa Bay.

Let's just say Tannehill's success in TN shouldn't have shocked anyone.

If Lock's ceiling is Tannehill, and I'm not sure why we are comparing these two, but if it is, I'm good with that.