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Thread: 2022 QBs

  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by King87 View Post
    But Herbert's efficiency with that high volume mitigates the silly critique that he's 'high volume'.

    He's not the NFL equivalent of a SG who only scores 20 points per game because he shots 18 times a night.

    Also, your argument against him sucks. If his coach doesn't botch timeouts he makes the playoffs after having played incredible in the fourth quarter and OT. Instead he is out of the playoffs due to something removed from his control. It's arbitrary and capricious.
    But the only way to quantify your argument is with stats. And Cousins also has his own who can be matched with just about anyone...not everyone. We know his apparent limitations, but Herbert may have similar ones. Jury is admittedly still out and only time will tell. I have seen enough of him in college and this year (I don't count anything during covid) to see that he can be fooled and schemed against. Many times, his talent can get him through. But not always. Maybe a coach can learn him up good, but for now...to me...he is a gun slinger.

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by King87 View Post
    So when did Herbert not step up? It wasn't against the Raiders.

    If you point to when he was a rookie, he was a rookie.

    If you point to a handful of games in his second year, more often than not he was really good.

    Your criticisms of Herbert lack a foundation of evidence.
    College too. Stats for days. Lost more games than I like for someone of his talent in a weaker conference.

    That's the fun part of said argument. Only time will tell which of our arguments are more valid. I could assert you currently lack evidence as well. He's got a decade to prove one of us right.

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27 View Post
    But the only way to quantify your argument is with stats. And Cousins also has his own who can be matched with just about anyone...not everyone. We know his apparent limitations, but Herbert may have similar ones. Jury is admittedly still out and only time will tell. I have seen enough of him in college and this year (I don't count anything during covid) to see that he can be fooled and schemed against. Many times, his talent can get him through. But not always. Maybe a coach can learn him up good, but for now...to me...he is a gun slinger.
    Quantify? You can't compare what Cousins did (and I like him and get shit on for it) to what Herbert is doing right out of the box. So if you quantify that, Herbert is much better, already. You also can quantify their physical ability, and Herbert has him trumped there. You cannot compare Cousins to Herbert; Herbert is already demonstrably better.

    The mere fact that you have to say "but Herbert may have similar ones," also only strengthens my argument. Of course he can be fooled and schemed against. Just about every QB in the game can be, sans a few can. And you can scheme against any QB. FFS, we've seen the shell coverage game slow down Mahomes. We've seen front four pressure 4-3 teams pillage Brady. And 3-4 blitz teams stop Manning cold.

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27 View Post
    College too. Stats for days. Lost more games than I like for someone of his talent in a weaker conference.

    That's the fun part of said argument. Only time will tell which of our arguments are more valid. I could assert you currently lack evidence as well. He's got a decade to prove one of us right.
    I don't care about college. I care about the NFL. If college mattered in the NFL Drew Lock would have been a much better QB and Josh Allen would suck.

    No, it's not the fun part of the argument. You don't have a basis; you're merely proffering conclusions. You could assert I lack evidence, but everything he's done thus far supports my stance, whereas it contradicts yours. So no, you cannot credibly argue that.

    I think you're relying on your gut and trying to find a way to justify said gut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King87 View Post
    I don't care about college. I care about the NFL. If college mattered in the NFL Drew Lock would have been a much better QB and Josh Allen would suck.

    No, it's not the fun part of the argument. You don't have a basis; you're merely proffering conclusions. You could assert I lack evidence, but everything he's done thus far supports my stance, whereas it contradicts yours. So no, you cannot credibly argue that.

    I think you're relying on your gut and trying to find a way to justify said gut.
    I do. To me, complete body of work matters. That's their stage. These guys are evaluated by their physical attributes as well as on field performance. Some GMs and coaches don't care about game results. Some do. Some see clay they can mold (Allen) and some want a body of work. Based on talent alone, Herbert should probably have been the first guy taken. Even over Burrow. Burrow won and had 1 incredible season. Tua won on the field. Herbert has more physical gifts than both. But somehow his team had 1 very good season with him at the helm. They lost a game they shouldn't have during that season too. That's why he dropped more than his gifts said he should have. Right, wrong or indifferent.

    It could definitely be gut. But I didn't pull out a magic 8 ball. I've watched the kid play plenty. That's what my gut is based on. That and a crap ton of Tiramisu from the pizza shop up the street.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27 View Post
    And I never made an argument that he was elite. I said capable. You scoffed. Now you want to argue against him being the guy to win a team a title. Each of these divisions have 4 QBs. Top to bottom, I see him and Cousins, at least for now, similar to Carr and JH. We could nitpick the differences but Carr hasn't been setting the world on fire and Herbert doesn't always step up.
    I will not argue the Carr/Cousins comparison, but Herbert is so much better than Goff it's not even funny.

    Mahomes and Herbs are better than every NFCN QB but Rodgers. Ergo, AFCW QBs are better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27 View Post
    I do. To me, complete body of work matters. That's their stage. These guys are evaluated by their physical attributes as well as on field performance. Some GMs and coaches don't care about game results. Some do. Some see clay they can mold (Allen) and some want a body of work. Based on talent alone, Herbert should probably have been the first guy taken. Even over Burrow. Burrow won and had 1 incredible season. Tua won on the field. Herbert has more physical gifts than both. But somehow his team had 1 very good season with him at the helm. They lost a game they shouldn't have during that season too. That's why he dropped more than his gifts said he should have. Right, wrong or indifferent.

    It could definitely be gut. But I didn't pull out a magic 8 ball. I've watched the kid play plenty. That's what my gut is based on. That and a crap ton of Tiramisu from the pizza shop up the street.
    Okay, so judge Allen by that, or Mahomes by that, etc. And then realize how silly that tis.

    Tua won on the field but lacked the talent of Herbert. Burrow had one of the most dominate seasons in history and was a top shelf talent himself.

    My gut is based on chicken wings and beverages, so solidarity, brethren.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27 View Post
    Goff no worse than 5th
    6th. Serious. 8th is too harsh. I agree with the ranking but I'd go Goff-Lock-Fields for now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Harris View Post
    "If you go out and you ball, the Broncos will take care of you."

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    Quote Originally Posted by aberdien View Post
    Here is the definitive ranking of NFC North QBs vs AFC West QBs, proving that AFCW QBs are better.

    1. Mahomes
    2. Rodgers
    3. Herbert
    4. Carr
    5. Cousins
    6. Drewdaddy
    7. Fields
    8. Goff
    Swap Rodgers and Mahomes put Goff at 6 and slide Drew and fields down one.
    Let's Rid3!!!!

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  14. #490
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    Mahomes- Elite
    Rodgers- Elite
    Herbert- Elite
    Carr- Above Avg but could be on his way to scrub
    Cousins- Dumb ego driven overrated douchebag scrub
    Goff- Scrub who at times looks like competent scrub....albeit still a scrub
    Fields- TBD (rookie any judgement on him right now is stupid to be honest)
    Lock- slightly TBD but at the moment closer to scrub.
    Teddy B- Absolute scrub and the worst of all of them
    Draft a QB, get an edge rusher, Find a RT and we can get back to doing things right

    Also F Cousins and any other scrub QB in Denver ever again, and please make Hackett our HC as well, Thanks!

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  16. #491
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    you guys remember when john elway was just a choker who couldn't win big games? good times!
    “When we do find that guy, we’ve got to have the continuity on the offensive side to where we can train him and develop him and get him there. This is our fourth offense in probably three or four years. Quarterbacks need to be developed. You don’t find one ready-made. We got to have a solid system in place for when we do go after whatever guy it may be, a young guy or a trade or whatnot.”
    - John Elway

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  18. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    you guys remember when john elway was just a choker who couldn't win big games? good times!
    Elway would not stand a chance with today's NFL fanbases, not after those first two seasons.
    Let's Rid3!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chazoe60 View Post
    Elway would not stand a chance with today's NFL fanbases, not after those first two seasons.
    He wouldn't have those two seasons in today's game, IMO.

    I feel like he'd trot out onto the field and dookie on the game.

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  22. #494
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    Ok- take this for what you will. Offseason is not even over yet so tampering etc etc etc. Blah blah blah


    Buuuuuuuut someone that I know also knows someone at the top of the team and that person told my someone that Rodgers will be a bronco next year. This was a convo they just had at lunch. So. Do with it what you will, but there is hope! and come back to this post if (when) it happens.
    The Plan at the moment:

    Draft: Trade a 3rd and 6th this year to a team to move up and get a 2nd next year (this will happen).

    Players I want:
    Jake Ferguson (Jake Butt) or Jelani Woods or Jeremy Ruckert or Cade Otten (owen daniels) at TE- All 4th rd or later.
    Troy Anderson LB 3rd/4th rd (yay Timmy!)
    Neil Farrell, JR DL- run stuffer- bye purcell

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  24. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by underrated29 View Post
    Ok- take this for what you will. Offseason is not even over yet so tampering etc etc etc. Blah blah blah


    Buuuuuuuut someone that I know also knows someone at the top of the team and that person told my someone that Rodgers will be a bronco next year. This was a convo they just had at lunch. So. Do with it what you will, but there is hope! and come back to this post if (when) it happens.
    thanks, stink. . .

    “When we do find that guy, we’ve got to have the continuity on the offensive side to where we can train him and develop him and get him there. This is our fourth offense in probably three or four years. Quarterbacks need to be developed. You don’t find one ready-made. We got to have a solid system in place for when we do go after whatever guy it may be, a young guy or a trade or whatnot.”
    - John Elway

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