Thread: Serious question

Originally Posted by Jaded

Was Frank Reich that class? Dog was right about him, he good.

I loved Reich as well. can't say it always works out but for some reason former backup quarterbacks who've had to really study seem to make good coaches.

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

I'm not buying that you hate to show your work. I can't read all of that

Audiobook comes out ealy 2021.

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

Not so sure that firing rich who really seemed to connect with Lock was the right move period a Young quarterback especially one who has had multiple offensive coordinators in college needs to continuity. And you expect when you have a young player to give them time to grow into the job. Listen I was extremely critical of skangarello and his play calling early in the season but it definitely got better towards the end period and at least he got Philip Lindsey the ball.

I hope they trade Lindsay.

Originally Posted by dogfish

With the benefit of hindsight, was replacing Vance Joseph with Fangio an intelligent, productive decision? I'm not asking whether VJ deserved to be fired, or who is the better coach in a vacuum, but rather this; have years one and two under Vic been noticeably better than years three and four under Vance would likely have been? Show your work-- this isn't intended as a "bash Fangio" thread, I do have an ulterior motive here. . .

Anyone would have sucked.

Originally Posted by underrated29

Ya for sure Fangio was the right move and we are better off for it.

Just simply look at talent! Our last couple drafts have been amazing. VJ drafts were dogshit. Our team has WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY more talent on it now. We have a pretty talented roster. Our defense is also head and shoulders better than it was with VJ. It is not even close. Vj could hardly get through an interview, let alone coach a game.

What on earth makes you think that John Elway deferred to VJ about the draft picks? He might have been able to sit in the room and express his opinion about a player, but Elway is listening to his scouting department.

And unless VJ knew something specific about a player he wouldn't have much impact.

No, those crappy drafts were all John Elway's fault; he made all the decisions and the coaches had little to do with it.

Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
With the benefit of hindsight, was replacing Vance Joseph with Fangio an intelligent, productive decision? I'm not asking whether VJ deserved to be fired, or who is the better coach in a vacuum, but rather this; have years one and two under Vic been noticeably better than years three and four under Vance would likely have been? Show your work-- this isn't intended as a "bash Fangio" thread, I do have an ulterior motive here. . .

In hindsight, it might have been a mistake to fire Rich Scangarello. Fangio wanted "his guy" and his guy was Pat Shurmur. Scangarello was a Kubiak disciple, and since Elway couldn't get Kubiak as his OC, he took the next best thing.

Fangio was trying to get the job so he couldn't say "no, I can't work with Scangarello, I must have someone else!" Or he wouldn't have gotten the job.

So, he waited a year, and blamed all the failure of the offense on Scangarello. They threw Scangarello under the bus, when the real reason for the failures was mostly the lack of talent on offense, and that was Elway's fault.

But, Elway couldn't fire himself, and it made no sense to fire Fangio after 1 year. So, . . . .

Personally I didn't like Scangarello, so this is not my opinion, but Lock did much better under his system than under Shurmur's.

Originally Posted by Cugel

In hindsight, it might have been a mistake to fire Rich Scangarello. Fangio wanted "his guy" and his guy was Pat Shurmur. Scangarello was a Kubiak disciple, and since Elway couldn't get Kubiak as his OC, he took the next best thing.

Fangio was trying to get the job so he couldn't say "no, I can't work with Scangarello, I must have someone else!" Or he wouldn't have gotten the job.

So, he waited a year, and blamed all the failure of the offense on Scangarello. They threw Scangarello under the bus, when the real reason for the failures was mostly the lack of talent on offense, and that was Elway's fault.

But, Elway couldn't fire himself, and it made no sense to fire Fangio after 1 year. So, . . . .

Personally I didn't like Scangarello, so this is not my opinion, but Lock did much better under his system than under Shurmur's.

I don't know how you can legitimately say that Lock did better in Scang's system than he has in Shurmer's. That's a copout just purely because of the circumstance.

Originally Posted by Cugel

What on earth makes you think that John Elway deferred to VJ about the draft picks? He might have been able to sit in the room and express his opinion about a player, but Elway is listening to his scouting department.

And unless VJ knew something specific about a player he wouldn't have much impact.

No, those crappy drafts were all John Elway's fault; he made all the decisions and the coaches had little to do with it.

1. Elway said as much himself. He was listening to the coaches too much. VJ had a lot of input
2. Look at the last two drafts. Theyve been 100% homeruns, dare I say Grand Slams. Elway still here. Who is not?
3. It had been reported many times that VJ had a great background of scouting talent and had a good eye for talent.

Originally Posted by underrated29

2. Look at the last two drafts. Theyve been 100% homeruns, dare I say Grand Slams. Elway still here. Who is not?

You might be on to something, but the last two drafts:



Have resulted in marginal production. For example, the sum of all the AV (approximate value, a single measure of season contribution to team wins) of the 2019 class was 16 among for the class. I'm going to randomly pick three other teams with a similar record and compare the 2019 class.

Jets - 13
Raiders - 29 (they had 9 picks, Denver had 6)
Colts - 16

They felt like good drafts, but that's a feeling and not results. For example, Risner. What's up there? I'd say we didn't whiff on our 1st round picks, they are solid. Outside of that, jury is out.

Interesting. We shall see in the next year or two.


For Risner, I believe it has more to do with Cush and not having the chemistry with Cush. Could just be Risner sucking. Who knows. He was graded as a possible first round talent last year. He did really well his rookie year. I think there are other factors at work for him. If he sucks next year too, then we likely have our answer.

Originally Posted by underrated29

Interesting. We shall see in the next year or two.


For Risner, I believe it has more to do with Cush and not having the chemistry with Cush. Could just be Risner sucking. Who knows. He was graded as a possible first round talent last year. He did really well his rookie year. I think there are other factors at work for him. If he sucks next year too, then we likely have our answer.

2020 is just a year long preseason for 2021, that's how I'm looking at it.

Next Denver HC has to be someone with some experience. No more rookie Coaches PLEASE. Take the John Fox route again.

Originally Posted by Shazam!

Next Denver HC has to be someone with some experience. No more rookie Coaches PLEASE. Take the John Fox route again.

Why? Every single head coach in this league started out as a "rookie coach". What's to say Denver doesn't hire the next Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, etc.? I don't really care who the head coach is personally, so long as he delegates authority, lets the coordinators run their system and/or tailor the systems to best fit with the players currently on the roster.

Originally Posted by Shazam!

Next Denver HC has to be someone with some experience. No more rookie Coaches PLEASE. Take the John Fox route again.

No NO John Fox's. Never again! No

Originally Posted by underrated29

No NO John Fox's. Never again! No

Thank you.