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Thread: Comparing the 2020 WR draft class

  1. #16

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    Y'all ain't love me!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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    As I'm starting to drill down a little on these guys, I think CeeDee Lamb is underrated on a couple of those lists. I think the good news for the Broncos is that the first three guys can be very effective slot, middle of the field players. I think Lamb or Ruggs is the better compliment to Sutton, but if they're in love with Jeudy, as reported, I don't think you can say that's a bad thing. Even Jefferson is a great slot guy, but he feels like a guy who will go late first round and nowhere near where Denver is picking, and 15 may be a little early. Taking any of the top four would give the Broncos offense some flexibility, as far as I can see. Ruggs is the most outside, deep threat type guy of the bunch, but I think he has traits, like his drop rate (PFF) and speed that also translates to the slot. Jefferson is intriguing. Drop back in the first round and pick him, gain some capital, and pick up a slot guy who can work the middle of the field and be versatile? I like the idea of these first round wide receivers, but wide receiver in the first is always a gamble.

    Reading Bob McGinn's stuff at The Athletic, and it seems like the scout surveys he's doing has people saying these are all solid contributors, but maybe not high end studs. There's nothing wrong with that, but it makes you wonder if you look deeper in the wide receiver class instead of grabbing a first round guy.

    Personally, I'm really liking CeeDee Lamb a lot, because of his ability to stretch the defense horizontally and vertically. I do wonder whether that translates to the pros as well as it did in the Big 12 against plenty of bad defenses. I also wonder if that translates into the offense Denver wants to run. Shurmur might want a more traditional slot guy like Jeudy, which is why the reports would make some sense. He's more of a traditional route runner guy who can play in the slot or the No. 2 to Sutton's outside work.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

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    One of the real interesting things in the overall picture is how different these prospects really are from prospects just five years ago. These are not outside guys. All of them played a ton of slot. It's just a sign of how the game is changing.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

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  7. #19

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    Mo, would you agree that WR's are much more important now than they've ever been before?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  8. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOtorboat View Post
    One of the real interesting things in the overall picture is how different these prospects really are from prospects just five years ago. These are not outside guys. All of them played a ton of slot. It's just a sign of how the game is changing.
    Ruggs in the slot is going to **** people up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    Mo, would you agree that WR's are much more important now than they've ever been before?
    Corps as a whole, yes. As I've said...have more ballers than the D can cover. But the resources have to be spread throughout the entire group. I don't want 1 expensive stud, 1 solid contributor and a bunch of filler. I want 4 soild contributors. I talk rings because a stud will get his stats in weeks 1-17, but a great coach will scheme them out of a playoff game. Memories are fun September-December. I want titles in February.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    Mo, would you agree that WR's are much more important now than they've ever been before?
    Yes, but I think this year might be a weird test on that for the draft. The history of high-drafted receivers is littered with crap.

    No receivers were taken in the top 15 in 2019 or 2018, but three did go in 2017: Corey Davis, Mike Williams, John Ross. All three haven't lived up to the draft position, and none of them are really their team's No. 1. Corey Coleman was a complete bust in 2016. Amari Cooper and DeVante Parker finally broke out three and four years afters being drafted, respectively (Cooper is probably best player of the above mentioned players. Kevin White got drafted at 7 in 2015. I don't even know who Kevin White is.

    2014 was really good (but that's six years ago): Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans and O'Dell Beckham.

    But none of these guys feel like they are busts, but at the same time it doesn't seem like the scouts think there's a Julio Jones or Calvin Johnson type of receiver.

    The most interesting thing to me is that these guys all played heavily in the slot and not many of the above players ever played in the slot. That's maybe the biggest change.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

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  13. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27 View Post
    Corps as a whole, yes. As I've said...have more ballers than the D can cover. But the resources have to be spread throughout the entire group. I don't want 1 expensive stud, 1 solid contributor and a bunch of filler. I want 4 soild contributors. I talk rings because a stud will get his stats in weeks 1-17, but a great coach will scheme them out of a playoff game. Memories are fun September-December. I want titles in February.
    I'm sorry but that doesn't disprove my point. Because you literally just end up with the logical conclusion that oyu get multiple good or great players. The point you're making is one that strengthens my position.

    The last time Eli Manning was worth a damn he had numerous big talents at WR, like the Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith (the other one) Plaxico Burress, Victor Cruz type talents and almost all of those guys were top picks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    I'm sorry but that doesn't disprove my point. Because you literally just end up with the logical conclusion that oyu get multiple good or great players. The point you're making is one that strengthens my position.

    The last time Eli Manning was worth a damn he had numerous big talents at WR, like the Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith (the other one) Plaxico Burress, Victor Cruz type talents and almost all of those guys were top picks.
    It does to the extent that resources are limited. You aren't getting multiple great players without sacrificing other areas. In this era where DBs aren't allowed to do their job and the QB is treated like a crystal egg, WRs of all types ha e an opportunity to be more effective. We just need to get the right ones.

    BTW...cherry picking again. NYG won the SB 8 years ago. If we are discussing what wins in today's NFL, going back 8 years isn't necessarily pertinent.

  15. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27 View Post
    It does to the extent that resources are limited. You aren't getting multiple great players without sacrificing other areas. In this era where DBs aren't allowed to do their job and the QB is treated like a crystal egg, WRs of all types ha e an opportunity to be more effective. We just need to get the right ones.

    BTW...cherry picking again. NYG won the SB 8 years ago. If we are discussing what wins in today's NFL, going back 8 years isn't necessarily pertinent.
    First, you can't tell me we overinvest in WR when we haven't taken a WR in round one since when, DT? How many FA dollars do we dump there? We've spent way more capital recently on the line and DB crew than WR. So if that's your conclusion you should want a WR.

    Hold on a second - eight years ago when the era we are in now is irrelevant? It was just a comment about how the WR's can help out a guy who was otherwise falling off.

    Resources are limited, but you want to draft a LT even none of the LT's in this class are slam dunk prospects, when we have an average LT on the team. That's not dealing with limited resources. You want to draft a corner high, even though Fangio's scheme doesn't call for mandatory high end talent? That's not dealing well with limited resources, either. The LB part makes much more sense, but there's are kinds of good LB's in this draft, and no LB in this draft sans Simmons -who I would want to trade up for, TBH- is as impactful as the WR's.

    What you're proposing as ideas based on resource management ideas are bad logistically and not in tune with this league.

    You said it's a time where all kinds of WR's can succeed. Right. Okay, I agree. But as I showed you earlier, the bidding war on WR's seems to be pretty important, and that's grounded in fact. So if your batch of guys who can play are second, third, and fourth rounds, maybe throw in a surprise find like 6/7 round or UDFA, BUT my guys, after my stud WR, are first round talents, whose squad is going to outperform the other?

    I'm hoping that Elway sees this as a chance to jump back into the arms race. I'm tired of watching the Chiefs trot out a death-squadron on offense while we send out players while we send out the Washington Generals. Offense is what's winning, been stelling you guys for that. A
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    First, you can't tell me we overinvest in WR when we haven't taken a WR in round one since when, DT? How many FA dollars do we dump there? We've spent way more capital recently on the line and DB crew than WR. So if that's your conclusion you should want a WR.

    Hold on a second - eight years ago when the era we are in now is irrelevant? It was just a comment about how the WR's can help out a guy who was otherwise falling off.

    Resources are limited, but you want to draft a LT even none of the LT's in this class are slam dunk prospects, when we have an average LT on the team. That's not dealing with limited resources. You want to draft a corner high, even though Fangio's scheme doesn't call for mandatory high end talent? That's not dealing well with limited resources, either. The LB part makes much more sense, but there's are kinds of good LB's in this draft, and no LB in this draft sans Simmons -who I would want to trade up for, TBH- is as impactful as the WR's.

    What you're proposing as ideas based on resource management ideas are bad logistically and not in tune with this league.

    You said it's a time where all kinds of WR's can succeed. Right. Okay, I agree. But as I showed you earlier, the bidding war on WR's seems to be pretty important, and that's grounded in fact. So if your batch of guys who can play are second, third, and fourth rounds, maybe throw in a surprise find like 6/7 round or UDFA, BUT my guys, after my stud WR, are first round talents, whose squad is going to outperform the other?

    I'm hoping that Elway sees this as a chance to jump back into the arms race. I'm tired of watching the Chiefs trot out a death-squadron on offense while we send out players while we send out the Washington Generals. Offense is what's winning, been stelling you guys for that. A
    I did not advocate for a certain position in my rebuttal. That said, we can all see the likelihood that both of our OTs are likely gone before 2021. While not ideal, we must find some someone to be ready in 21.

    I think 8 years is enough time to see the difference in roster construction. Workhorse RBs were still more common. The big, tall WRs were still en vogue. We have since moved back to the WRs who are better in space since the CBs have caught up in size to those bigger receivers. I noticed the difference over the past 3 years. We debate at work all the time. Need that QB. Keep him safe. Play strong D. Have multiple threats. That's what is winning now. I'm not anti-WR in round 1. I just don't see the value in investing that high. Of course we need them, but you and I just disagree in HOW we need to get them.

  17. #27

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    Elway is going to end up drafting no WR's and style on me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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    My gf lost a bet to me about buffalo's (we were up at Daniel's park yesterday) and my winning was she had to watch one highlight video of these wr and rank them. Here is her list in order:

    Ceedee by a mile!
    Ruggs
    Raegor
    Viska
    Ayuik
    Jeudy
    Jefferson
    Mims
    The Plan at the moment:

    Draft: Trade a 3rd and 6th this year to a team to move up and get a 2nd next year (this will happen).

    Players I want:
    Jake Ferguson (Jake Butt) or Jelani Woods or Jeremy Ruckert or Cade Otten (owen daniels) at TE- All 4th rd or later.
    Troy Anderson LB 3rd/4th rd (yay Timmy!)
    Neil Farrell, JR DL- run stuffer- bye purcell

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    Quote Originally Posted by underrated29 View Post
    My gf lost a bet to me about buffalo's (we were up at Daniel's park yesterday) and my winning was she had to watch one highlight video of these wr and rank them. Here is her list in order:

    Ceedee by a mile!
    Ruggs
    Raegor
    Viska
    Ayuik
    Jeudy
    Jefferson
    Mims
    Well I guess this settles it. Shut down the thread.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

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  22. #30
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    Honestly not a ton different. But she's way to low on Jeudy

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