Thread: Drew Lock

Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56

That’s cool and that was last year. Aaron Rodgers was an average QB his first season as the starter and that was after sitting behind Favre for 3 years. Let’s see if Lock can develop enough to earn the starting job. If the Broncos hadn’t brought in QB competition and Lock was still stinking up the place as the undisputed starter, I could see there being concern, but Lock hasn’t thrown a meaningful pass in a real football game in 8 months. Let’s see what the kid has actually learned in a real offseason program before we damn him to hell, okay?

Amen.

Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56

That’s cool and that was last year. Aaron Rodgers was an average QB his first season as the starter and that was after sitting behind Favre for 3 years.

You wouldn’t hear a peep of criticism out of me if Lock put up average numbers. Average numbers would be light years ahead of where he is now. And that’s dead last 32/32

Originally Posted by atwater27

You wouldn’t hear a peep of criticism out of me if Lock put up average numbers. Average numbers would be light years ahead of where he is now. And that’s dead last 32/32

The excuses and legit reasons for his failures last year have been discussed ad nauseum. I’m not going to try to argue about your opinion or the stats from some website I don’t give a rip about. I will say that Drew went 4-1 to start his career. Then everything he’d learned (playbook and coaching staff) changed combined with COVID and injuries. He regressed. Now that he has had a real offseason to get up to speed and hone his craft a little more, I’d like to see him in at least one preseason game with real bullets flying before I claim he’s the worst QB in the league.

We’re dangerously treading on “if Josh Allen was the Broncos QB, after his first two bad years, he never would’ve gotten a third” domain. For guys who never had to read defenses, it takes more time. For guys who have defensive minded HCs who don’t deal with QBs, it’s takes more time. For guys who’ve never had the same OC for 2 consecutive years, it takes more time. We should trust the process before we all overreact is all I’m saying. You’re probably right. Lock has a much higher chance of being Tim Tebow (well, Kyle Orton, Lock has a good throwing motion) than he does being Aaron Rogers but we just aren’t at the stage of the game to really make an educated decision on it, yet.

I can only imagine how some of these guys would have reacted after Elways rookie year...

Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56

The excuses and legit reasons for his failures last year have been discussed ad nauseum. I’m not going to try to argue about your opinion or the stats from some website I don’t give a rip about. I will say that Drew went 4-1 to start his career. Then everything he’d learned (playbook and coaching staff) changed combined with COVID and injuries. He regressed. Now that he has had a real offseason to get up to speed and hone his craft a little more, I’d like to see him in at least one preseason game with real bullets flying before I claim he’s the worst QB in the league.

We’re dangerously treading on “if Josh Allen was the Broncos QB, after his first two bad years, he never would’ve gotten a third” domain. For guys who never had to read defenses, it takes more time. For guys who have defensive minded HCs who don’t deal with QBs, it’s takes more time. For guys who’ve never had the same OC for 2 consecutive years, it takes more time. We should trust the process before we all overreact is all I’m saying. You’re probably right. Lock has a much higher chance of being Tim Tebow (well, Kyle Orton, Lock has a good throwing motion) than he does being Aaron Rogers but we just aren’t at the stage of the game to really make an educated decision on it, yet.

Josh Allen is the needle in a haystack exception, not the rule. Which makes the likelihood of Drew instantly waking up that much less. And blaming his performance on Covid is tired. 31 of the other qb’s had the same excuse.

Originally Posted by atwater27

You wouldn’t hear a peep of criticism out of me if Lock put up average numbers. Average numbers would be light years ahead of where he is now. And that’s dead last 32/32

Criticize away man. Last year won't cut it. Needs to improve. This is so obvious why even bother saying it.

I guess you are trying to say that he's still 32/32 and that's your prediction for him this year?

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

I can only imagine how some of these guys would have reacted after Elways rookie year...

Completely different era. Elway would have crushed it right out the gate in today’s NFL

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Criticize away man. Last year won't cut it. Needs to improve. This is so obvious why even bother saying it.

I guess you are trying to say that he's still 32/32 and that's your prediction for him this year?

The ranking I quoted was from PFF, who a lot of people hate here. They are only the most science based fact crunching reality oriented football analysts in the game.

Originally Posted by atwater27

Josh Allen is the needle in a haystack exception, not the rule. Which makes the likelihood of Drew instantly waking up that much less. And blaming his performance on Covid is tired. 31 of the other qb’s had the same excuse.

Covid was a problem for the other QBs, but not all of them were going into their first year with a new/young/rookie roster and new OC. To the extent that covid caused them a similar difficulty, then it's weak excuse. But a lot of those other QBs had years of experience with their OC or roster, etc. To them, that time in camp and those reps would not have been as important.

Josh Allen is an NFL QB who was 'rough' but who spent three years with the same unit with the same staff, etc. That's not needle in a haystack, that's just a 50/50 QB prospect getting the structure and stability needed to possibly excel at the position.

When people have takes that miss important details, it makes it harder to pay attention to their future football takes.

Originally Posted by atwater27

The ranking I quoted was from PFF, who a lot of people hate here. They are only the most science based fact crunching reality oriented football analysts in the game.

I get it man. I'm ok with PFF as a reasonable fact, unlike Jaded.

His results last year sucked.

SUCKED.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

When people have takes that miss important details, it makes it harder to pay attention to their future football takes.

Feel free to not pay attention. No skin off my back.

Originally Posted by atwater27

Feel free to not pay attention. No skin off my back.

Feel free to get better!!

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Covid was a problem for the other QBs, but not all of them were going into their first year with a new/young/rookie roster and new OC. To the extent that covid caused them a similar difficulty, then it's weak excuse. But a lot of those other QBs had years of experience with their OC or roster, etc. To them, that time in camp and those reps would not have been as important.

Josh Allen is an NFL QB who was 'rough' but who spent three years with the same unit with the same staff, etc. That's not needle in a haystack, that's just a 50/50 QB prospect getting the structure and stability needed to possibly excel at the position.

When people have takes that miss important details, it makes it harder to pay attention to their future football takes.

Allen also was a top 10 prospect. I don't think it's even close to 50/50 on second rounders who struggle early figuring it out. I just don't think Allen is an apt comparison here.

Allen also had some production that measured favorably by PFF - by the time his second year ended there was a great debate as to how good he was, but most people (from my recollection) at least ceded the notion that you could interpret his numbers as being promising

To me it's not so much that covid didn't hurt DL, or bungling his start in Denver, etc - a lot of things have gone against him- but there is a fear that we're treading into TS territory andeverything comes off as an excuse for him

To me, I cannot find the better argument as to optimism or pessimism being the better view; a reasonable person could disagree, and some of the DL camp's arguments square with me

I just cannot seem to get past how little regard Denver has for him - they traded for TB, they inquired about Watson, Stafford, Rodgers, etc - and yeah you can argue that's due diligence, but not due diligence teams with a legit starting QB do

Also PFF is a fine tool to measure QBs - you might recall in the past posters who loved TS pointing to raw statistics for TS- when you're doing overall production because it compares the era and active QB's to themselves. No more going "but this completion percentage was better than a young Brady," or flawed comparisons

tl;dr - DL's production is so bad that in an era where game managing QB's are going the way of the doo-doo bird a game manager in BridgeQB might lead to better team results

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

Allen also was a top 10 prospect. I don't think it's even close to 50/50 on second rounders who struggle early figuring it out. I just don't think Allen is an apt comparison here.

Agreed, Allen's top 10 prospect rating makes him a much stronger overall candidate for NFL success than an early 2d rounder. There are some similarities between the two but Allen, especially as he was drafted so highly and was always going to be Plan A, was always more likely to succeed and was the better QB coming out of college.