Thread: Drew Lock

dog - the voice of reason.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

Your last sentence is key. I don't think a single person is saying "Let's bring in Smith or Dalton and have an all out competition!"

i hope that's the case, but you never know around here, which is why i wanted to ask that question in plain terms. . .

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Reps... and the team 'vision'...cuts the clutter so that everyone knows the deal. Everyone knows the plan, who the guy is, how's it's going down.

When it's uncertain, then you get receivers unsure of which QB they need to spend their extra cycles gelling with. Etc.

yep-- reps tell the real story. . .

also, another factor at play in this discussion is the money. . . teddy bridgewater and alex smith were both in the $20 million range last year as starters, while dalton made an entirely manageable $3 million. . . if a guy like smith is going to command $8-12 million as a backup / bridge / whatever, then that's a non-starter. . . personally, i can't see paying more than $3-4 mil for the position. . . if that means lying in the weeds until the late second, early third wave of free agency, i'm fine with that. . . if you come away with tyrod taylor or jacoby brisket instead of alex or jameis, that's cool-- and it probably reduces the temptation for vic to try to get that guy into the lineup, as well. . .

Originally Posted by dogfish

alright boys, let's put this smith / dalton / vet backup thing to bed. . . because i at least think we're mostly on the same page here. . . i've said quite a few times that i'm fine with bringing in that type of guy as a backup, but have zero interest in adding one to compete with lock for the starting job. . . so what's the difference in those two scenarios? the difference is the plan. . . if we can't get watson or wilson, i just want denver to have a plan-- a solid blueprint for building this team into a legit contender, and that requires a quality, long-term solution at the most important position. . . i'm on record with my preference for giving lock another year to develop, but have also said that i can live with a highly drafted rookie like fields , wilson, or lance, if that's truly what they think is best. . .

but what i can't handle is any more half-assed short-term fixes, and that's exactly what a QB competition is. . . what it really comes down to is reps. . . if you have a solid starter going into camp, that guy is going to get probably somewhere in the range of 90% of the first team reps. . . if you're going to have a truly open competition, then it may not be an even 50-50 split, but QB2 will need to take at least 35-40% of those first team reps-- to get him up to speed in the offense, and to give the coaches an apples to apples comparison on which to base their decision. . . granted, i don't even think we're likely to have a pre-season, but in the past we've seen situations where QB1 would play with the ones the first week, QB2 would play with the ones the second week, etc. . . for me, that would be the ultimate worst-case scenario. . . if you're going to give lock another chance, make it a legitimate opportunity-- don't hamstring him by wasting the reps that are absolutely critical to a young QB's development on some no-upside journeyman. . .

now, if you want to increase the depth and talent at the critical QB spot, i'm 100% in favor of that. . . for the people saying that veteran mentoring doesn't have value, please look at the impact demarcus ware had on von miller's career, and re-asses your position. . . mahomes had the best offensive coaching staff in the league, yet has spoken repeatedly and in glowing terms of the value of having alex smith in the QB room. . . sometimes, it's just easier to feel comfortable talking to a co-worker than it is talking to your boss. . . i'm absolutely in favor of giving a young QB that support-- it just has to be done the right way. . . lock's not a total moron-- i'm sure he is instinctively aware of the difference between having ultra scrubs behind him on the depth chart vs. an established NFL vet with dozens of starts under his belt. . .

the other area where you can get in trouble is when the front office and the coaching staff aren't on the same page. . . paton is in the first year of a six year contract-- he has a bare minimum of 3-4 years job security, so this definitely isn't a do or die year for him. . . fangio's working under very different circumstances-- he most certainly IS under a lot of pressure to win right now. . . the likelihood of him surviving a third losing season is pretty slim. . . if i'm george paton, and i'm considering bringing in a guy like smith or dalton, i'm sitting down with my coaching staff first, and making sure that we're all rowing in the same direction. . . doing everything we can to develop our QBOTF takes precedent over winning 1-2 more games this year at any cost. . . if i have any suspicion that vic is going to bench my young QB at halftime in week three because he threw two picks, then i'm simply going to remove the temptation by not giving him a vet to turn to. . .


with all that said, is anyone here seriously advocating for bringing in alex or andy, and having that actual competition where they're getting half the first team reps in camp and the pre-season?

Agree with all of this... I'd add that if we were going to pair Lock with a veteran mentor - last year was the time to do it. But I think Elway wanted to clear the deck for him.

Now that he has a full season of bed shitting and losing the confidence of his teammates and coaches - my main concern is that nobody at Dove Valley truly believes he can be the guy at this stage. And with Fangio and Lock both in year three - he's going to have a short leash. Therefore - I don't see much value in pairing him with a veteran backup. If Lock fails, we're going to have a losing season. No sense in trying to get Andy Dalton to cling to a 7-9 or 8-8 season.

I'd rather have another rookie draft pick who is ready to start his audition if Lock fails as opposed to some middling veteran who just ensures mediocrity.

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

dog - the voice of reason.

no wonder this place is falling apart!

So Dog basically states the same thing many of the rest of us have stated but now he is the voice of reason. LMAO

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

dog - the voice of reason.

I'm never sending you a text message again.

Originally Posted by SR

I'm never sending you a text message again.

Mission accomplished.

Originally Posted by Northman

So Dog basically states the same thing many of the rest of us have stated but now he is the voice of reason. LMAO

It's the use of ... you know ... the periods! ... It's like he's ... Holydriver ... but smarter ...

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

Mission accomplished.

Or maybe your Jitterbug just didn't get them?

Originally Posted by SR

Or maybe your Jitterbug just didn't get them?

I only got one, and assumed it was meant for the group chat.

Plus, I love me some Manwitch!

Queue Rex...

Originally Posted by Northman

So Dog basically states the same thing many of the rest of us have stated but now he is the voice of reason. LMAO

settle down, big fella. . its not my fault that im both more articulate and better looking. . .

Originally Posted by dogfish

settle down, big fella. . its not my fault that im both more articulate and better looking. . .

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

I only got one, and assumed it was meant for the group chat.

Plus, I love me some Manwitch!

Queue Rex...

No, it was meant just for you. Special delivery.

Originally Posted by Jeudy10Hamler13

Yeah but even though we loved that Tebow magic in the 4th quarters of game’s we all knew Tebow wasn’t a quarterback. And you couldn’t win that wait over the course of year’s. But it was fun to watcheven though it was slop for 3 quarters.

Speak for yourself, I hated every second of the Tebow Error.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

He's still been in an NFL building for 2 years. I'm not talking about in terms of playing experience. Just in terms of he's not some skiddish rookie who doesn't understand how the NFL works who will shy away from a vet pushing him. We have people saying us bringing in a vet would result in that vet winning the job like with Miami this year. Tua was a rookie. If we're saying Lock is going to fold to a vet like he's a rookie, that's giving him less credit than even I think he deserves.

It's just absolute insanity to me the complete resistance from this fanbase to bring in any QB with actual NFL experience just to have on the roster. Anyone who actually believes in Lock shouldn't be concerned that freaking Alex Smith will come in and take his job.

My only concern is Dalton or Smith going in and “winning” the Broncos out of lottery pick the needed to draft an elite prospect.

I honestly have no interest in that whatsoever, and I can’t imagine why any fan does.