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Thread: Broncos resign Shelby Harris

  1. #76
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    It’s only a one yr deal. I am still surprised elway rarely resigns players and always brings in FA. Miller and Todd are only defense from the SB winning team. Miller is the only bronco drafted and playing on contract extension. Simmons is tagged, Heuerman tested market and came back in small 2 yr deal. Elway just lets everyone hit FA and brings in cheaper FA. After hitting it out of the park with Ware, Ward, Talib and manning it has not planned out well with this strategy for a long haul based on record last few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTerror218 View Post
    It’s only a one yr deal. I am still surprised elway rarely resigns players and always brings in FA. Miller and Todd are only defense from the SB winning team. Miller is the only bronco drafted and playing on contract extension. Simmons is tagged, Heuerman tested market and came back in small 2 yr deal. Elway just lets everyone hit FA and brings in cheaper FA. After hitting it out of the park with Ware, Ward, Talib and manning it has not planned out well with this strategy for a long haul based on record last few years.
    I think you're overstating it. Kareem Jackson was a great sign last year. Bryce Callahan look like a good signing on paper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTerror218 View Post
    It’s only a one yr deal. I am still surprised elway rarely resigns players and always brings in FA. Miller and Todd are only defense from the SB winning team. Miller is the only bronco drafted and playing on contract extension. Simmons is tagged, Heuerman tested market and came back in small 2 yr deal. Elway just lets everyone hit FA and brings in cheaper FA. After hitting it out of the park with Ware, Ward, Talib and manning it has not planned out well with this strategy for a long haul based on record last few years.
    To be fair, outside of the 2015 free agent class, who really has been worth re-signing that the Broncos have let go? Paradis was supposedly one last year, but he has been a colossal bust for the Panthers at that price point. Billy Turner's price tag wasn't what Elway wanted to pay for a guy they probably had penciled as a guard/swing tackle, hence the choice to splurge on James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnderArmour View Post
    To be fair, outside of the 2015 free agent class, who really has been worth re-signing that the Broncos have let go? Paradis was supposedly one last year, but he has been a colossal bust for the Panthers at that price point. Billy Turner's price tag wasn't what Elway wanted to pay for a guy they probably had penciled as a guard/swing tackle, hence the choice to splurge on James.
    Changing systems hurts FA too. Not many have the same impacts changing teams.

    Paradis, Roby, Beadles, decker, Moreno, orland Franklin, Orange Julius, Robert Ayers, Bruton, McGovern, Latimer, Malik Jackson, Travathan, and Gotsis are all broncos who could be average or above who tested the market once Elway took over. From what I could find elway too over he has only resigned 7 draft picks: c. Harris, Miller, Wolfe, d Thomas, v. Green, and Nate Irving. Over 70 draft picks he has resigned 7. Poor drafting in combination with letting some test market rather then getting extension done ahead of time. He even pushed Miller to the edge with the same type of negotiations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jsteve01 View Post
    I think you're overstating it. Kareem Jackson was a great sign last year. Bryce Callahan look like a good signing on paper.
    He has found some great FA but his process is to let them all test market and set their own value then sign someone cheaper. But for every Jackson signing there are 2 FA busts. The FA class with ware ward and Talib is the exception.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTerror218 View Post
    Changing systems hurts FA too. Not many have the same impacts changing teams.

    Paradis, Roby, Beadles, decker, Moreno, orland Franklin, Orange Julius, Robert Ayers, Bruton, McGovern, Latimer, Malik Jackson, Travathan, and Gotsis are all broncos who could be average or above who tested the market once Elway took over. From what I could find elway too over he has only resigned 7 draft picks: c. Harris, Miller, Wolfe, d Thomas, v. Green, and Nate Irving. Over 70 draft picks he has resigned 7. Poor drafting in combination with letting some test market rather then getting extension done ahead of time. He even pushed Miller to the edge with the same type of negotiations.
    Offseason after 2015 was an absolute disaster. Broncos had to tag Miller, then had Trevathan, Jackson, Bruton, CJ Anderson, Wolfe, and Brock as pending free agents with no hope of keeping the band together. Unfortunately, the way that offseason was handled probably set this franchise up for the disaster we have had for the last few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elevation inc View Post
    It's not bad.....media is dumb these days...its been a contributing factor to the downfall of society and human decency in conjuction with social media.....
    This is hilarious.
    "Tuning ... into each other ... lift all higher”
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    Sign Garbage Minshew.

    Draft
    1st round— Cooper Dejean CB
    2nd round— Jack Sawyer OLB
    3rd round— Will Shipley RB
    4th round— Ricky Pearsall WR
    5th round— Ladd McKonkey WR
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  12. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTerror218 View Post
    Changing systems hurts FA too. Not many have the same impacts changing teams.

    Paradis, Roby, Beadles, decker, Moreno, orland Franklin, Orange Julius, Robert Ayers, Bruton, McGovern, Latimer, Malik Jackson, Travathan, and Gotsis are all broncos who could be average or above who tested the market once Elway took over. From what I could find elway too over he has only resigned 7 draft picks: c. Harris, Miller, Wolfe, d Thomas, v. Green, and Nate Irving. Over 70 draft picks he has resigned 7. Poor drafting in combination with letting some test market rather then getting extension done ahead of time. He even pushed Miller to the edge with the same type of negotiations.
    This is a fair summary. Horrible drafting for many years led to overpaying some FAs in a desperate attempt to plug the many holes on this team.

    Combine this with Elway's policy of allowing his own FAs to get to their final contract year and THEN try and re-negotiate when the player is about 2 months away from UFA and you have a recipe for failure.

    And there's been plenty of failure to go around over at Dove Valley in recent years.

    Sometimes Elway's incompetence pays off in an accidental way.

    Take Brock Osweiler. All the commentators were yelling all off-season that the Broncos should re-negotiate Osweiler's contract during the summer of 2015 since he would become a FA after the season. Elway refused.

    Then Peyton got injured and sucked during the 2015 season, giving Osweiler a chance to start nearly 1/2 a season, winning 5 of 7 games. Ooops!

    Now other teams started being interested. Elway still thought he could re-sign Osweiler on his terms and wanted to offer around $10m a year.

    But, the Texans owner had identified Osweiler as their future franchise QB and were determined to sign him away from Denver. They offered $13m. In a last minute panic, Elway had to match. Then the Texans offered $16m on a $37m guaranteed contract. Elway refused to match that because he knew the Texans would only go higher. They were determined to out-bid Denver.

    So, Osweiler walked.

    Now, as it turned out, Osweiler's 2015 performance was an outlier before defenses figured him out, and he proceeded to suck his way out of the league. So, Elway got lucky. Broncos fans do not have to grit their teeth every time they look at Houston being in the playoffs with Osweiler rubbing it in their faces for 10 years.

    Of course, Elway immediately re-screwed the pooch hard by selecting Paxton Lynch in the 2016 draft, but that doesn't change the point: sometimes by not re-signing players you get lucky. Sometimes not.

    Elway's refusal to re-negotiate Von Miller's contract prior to the 2015 season blew up in his face when Miller became the SB MVP and Elway had to give him a 6 year, $114,100,000 contract.

    So, it doesn't always work out in his favor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    This is a fair summary. Horrible drafting for many years led to overpaying some FAs in a desperate attempt to plug the many holes on this team.

    Combine this with Elway's policy of allowing his own FAs to get to their final contract year and THEN try and re-negotiate when the player is about 2 months away from UFA and you have a recipe for failure.

    And there's been plenty of failure to go around over at Dove Valley in recent years.

    Sometimes Elway's incompetence pays off in an accidental way.

    Take Brock Osweiler. All the commentators were yelling all off-season that the Broncos should re-negotiate Osweiler's contract during the summer of 2015 since he would become a FA after the season. Elway refused.

    Then Peyton got injured and sucked during the 2015 season, giving Osweiler a chance to start nearly 1/2 a season, winning 5 of 7 games. Ooops!

    Now other teams started being interested. Elway still thought he could re-sign Osweiler on his terms and wanted to offer around $10m a year.

    But, the Texans owner had identified Osweiler as their future franchise QB and were determined to sign him away from Denver. They offered $13m. In a last minute panic, Elway had to match. Then the Texans offered $16m on a $37m guaranteed contract. Elway refused to match that because he knew the Texans would only go higher. They were determined to out-bid Denver.

    So, Osweiler walked.

    Now, as it turned out, Osweiler's 2015 performance was an outlier before defenses figured him out, and he proceeded to suck his way out of the league. So, Elway got lucky. Broncos fans do not have to grit their teeth every time they look at Houston being in the playoffs with Osweiler rubbing it in their faces for 10 years.

    Of course, Elway immediately re-screwed the pooch hard by selecting Paxton Lynch in the 2016 draft, but that doesn't change the point: sometimes by not re-signing players you get lucky. Sometimes not.

    Elway's refusal to re-negotiate Von Miller's contract prior to the 2015 season blew up in his face when Miller became the SB MVP and Elway had to give him a 6 year, $114,100,000 contract.

    So, it doesn't always work out in his favor.
    yeah I think the economics of making people ride out whatever deal theyre on looks good on paper. But it definitely doesn't lend itself to Goodwill Or good morale in the locker room. That's one thing that Mike shanahan did well. He re-upped prior to the last year of their deal and typically got them on a better deal than they would have if he had waited. So if you view these Players as long-term options. You're obviously better off to do the deal earlier.

  14. #85
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    It's like people forget about scale. The salary cap increases every year. Hence expected salaries increase every year. Plus one more year of solid production is more for the player to bargain with when it comes to negotiations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jsteve01 View Post
    yeah I think the economics of making people ride out whatever deal theyre on looks good on paper. But it definitely doesn't lend itself to Goodwill Or good morale in the locker room. That's one thing that Mike shanahan did well. He re-upped prior to the last year of their deal and typically got them on a better deal than they would have if he had waited. So if you view these Players as long-term options. You're obviously better off to do the deal earlier.
    That's what most every team does, just not Elway. You normally see other teams re-sign their veteran draft picks when they work out. But, Elway keeps insisting on waiting until they reach their final year and then about October, try and contact their agents and work out a deal.

    He thinks he's playing hardball with the players, but it blows up in his face time and again.

    Danny Tevathan might have been the worst example. They couldn't re-sign him or Malik Jackson in 2016 because they had to give that ginormous contract to Von Miller. They could do 1 more contract and they chose to keep Derek Wolfe, and let Malik and Trevathan go.

    The middle of the Broncos LBs has never been the same since. They still haven't replaced Trevathan as a cover ILB.

    But, both Trevathan and Jackson have since stated publicly that they didn't want to leave the team, Elway didn't have enough $ to pay them, and do Von's immense deal, and re-sign Wolfe at the same time).

    And Von only wanted slightly more than Justin Houston money (about $16m a year at the time). He ended up getting a LOT more because Elway waited. After the SB, if Elway had re-signed him earlier, everybody would have been saying that $16m a year was a steal for the SB MVP.

    Contract Negotiation 101: FAIL!
    What not to do: Wait until the player achieves maximum possible leverage before you negotiate a deal.

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  17. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jsteve01 View Post
    It's like people forget about scale. The salary cap increases every year. Hence expected salaries increase every year. Plus one more year of solid production is more for the player to bargain with when it comes to negotiations.
    Hole in one.

    Sometimes the player loses money -- if he's injured or under-performs.
    Shelby Harris did.

    But, more often the player has a good year, and ends up getting even more money.

    (As Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan and a bunch of other former Broncos did).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    Hole in one.

    Sometimes the player loses money -- if he's injured or under-performs.
    Shelby Harris did.

    But, more often the player has a good year, and ends up getting even more money.

    (As Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan and a bunch of other former Broncos did).
    my rationale is that if it's a guy that you like anyways. That you intend to pursue anyways. Then resign the kid. I can see why they let Roby go after 4 years. I can see why they did that with Shane Ray as well. But some of these guys like a Phillip Lindsay for example are people that you know deserve to be with your team long-term and you're better off doing the deal as early as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    This is hilarious.
    *Facts* *Science*
    Denver's 2024 George Paton Draft/FA plan

    Draft
    RD1- TE Brock Bowers, GA
    RD3- QB Spencer Rattler, SC
    RD4- CB Josh Newton, TCU
    RD5- S Reggie Pearson, OK
    RD5- C Michael Jurgens, Wake Forest
    RD6- K Jonah Dalmas, Boise St

    FA
    1. With what money

  21. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by aberdien View Post
    The difference between resign and re-sign is big!
    Yes it is. But, you know you're fighting a losing cause on that one you know. I gave up years ago. It's irritating, but it's hopeless to point it out to Dooo0ds.

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