Thread: 3 moves, 1 pick

Originally Posted by Northman

Meh, the reasons for those two teams records goes beyond their Olines especially at their respective QB positions. Mahomes makes up for a lot of the Oline issues while Dak cant capitalize on the Cowboys. OL isnt the be all end all but Denver has tried drafting OL in later rounds in the past and it hasnt panned out too well for them. Now would be a good time to take a shot in the first and see if they can change their fortunes. Of course Denver has never done anything that i really wanted so i fully expect to draft a shitty player anyway.

I would argue that we did pretty well with Risner (round 2), McGovern (round 5) and Paradis (round 6) in recent drafts. But I certainly wont argue that we've had our share of bad ones as well. Again...I just don't want to reach for one that doesn't pan out and we're stuck with for 4 years because Elway won't admit a mistake.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

I would argue that we did pretty well with Risner (round 2), McGovern (round 5) and Paradis (round 6) in recent drafts. But I certainly wont argue that we've had our share of bad ones as well. Again...I just don't want to reach for one that doesn't pan out and we're stuck with for 4 years because Elway won't admit a mistake.

Agreed but we could apply that to any position we take in the first round. Its all a crapshoot anyway.

Originally Posted by Northman

Agreed but we could apply that to any position we take in the first round. Its all a crapshoot anyway.

Always is. Just have to trust your scouting and go with the highest rated player at a position of need

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

I'm not opposed to drafting a LT, but I think like in past years there is a little too much value placed on some of the draft options this year. If we draft the best of what's left over at 15, then we run the risk of ending up with another Bolles.

bolles wasn't "leftovers," though-- he was the first OT off the board, they had their pick of the litter. . . it was just a bad evaluation, plain and simple. . . if they avoid every position where they've ever made a mistake, then they can't draft anyone at all. . . for instance, jeudy, lamb, and ruggs are definitely off the board, since they're just going to be another ashley lelei. . .

Originally Posted by dogfish

bolles wasn't "leftovers," though-- he was the first OT off the board, they had their pick of the litter. . . it was just a bad evaluation, plain and simple. . . if they avoid every position where they've ever made a mistake, then they can't draft anyone at all. . . for instance, jeudy, lamb, and ruggs are definitely off the board, since they're just going to be another ashley lelei. . .

But we all still knew it was an awful draft for OL that year. Even though we had our pick of the litter, the fact that ALL of the OL lasted that long is quite telling in and of itself. Getting the 4th guy this year is WORLDS apart from the best OL in that draft...at least as far as projections and scouting are concerned. Wills, Thomas, Becton, Wirfs would all please me to see drafted at 15, regardless of order selected.

Oh...and apparently Jones was franchised.

Originally Posted by dogfish

bolles wasn't "leftovers," though-- he was the first OT off the board, they had their pick of the litter. . . it was just a bad evaluation, plain and simple. . . if they avoid every position where they've ever made a mistake, then they can't draft anyone at all. . . for instance, jeudy, lamb, and ruggs are definitely off the board, since they're just going to be another ashley lelei. . .

Not really what I'm saying. In fact I have shown where we have had success drafting OL. Clady, Risner, McGovern, etc. My point was the draft where we got Bolles was overall weak for LT. Ramczyk has turned out to be good, but he always was regarded as a RT, where he has flourished. As far as this draft goes, I think after Bechton (who raises some concerns himself), the value of true LT is limited. Wills and Wirfs are regarded as better fits for RT or IOL and there is a lot of concern about Thomas's athleticism (much like there was with Bolles)...and Jones and Jackson are probably a year away, despite their upside. So again...do we "force" the issue just to appease angry fans? Can you move Bolles inside? With the likelihood that we are left with choosing option 3, 4 or 5 in this draft...I'd much rather look for a trade or FA signing if the team is indeed intent on replacing Bolles (which doesn't sound like it's the case).

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

Not really what I'm saying. In fact I have shown where we have had success drafting OL. Clady, Risner, McGovern, etc. My point was the draft where we got Bolles was overall weak for LT. Ramczyk has turned out to be good, but he always was regarded as a RT, where he has flourished. As far as this draft goes, I think after Bechton (who raises some concerns himself), the value of true LT is limited. Wills and Wirfs are regarded as better fits for RT or IOL and there is a lot of concern about Thomas's athleticism (much like there was with Bolles)...and Jones and Jackson are probably a year away, despite their upside. So again...do we "force" the issue just to appease angry fans? Can you move Bolles inside? With the likelihood that we are left with choosing option 3, 4 or 5 in this draft...I'd much rather look for a trade or FA signing if the team is indeed intent on replacing Bolles (which doesn't sound like it's the case).

i'm 100% fine with either wills or wirfs as a RT. . . james is a sunk cost, and wilkinson is overmatched at tackle, and only under contract for one year. . . we actually have a bigger, more immediate need on the right side. . . risner is the only solid OL we have who's under contract for more than a year. . . i don't care if it's trade, free agency, the draft, or all of the above-- but they gotta give munchak more than than one good player to work with if we want him to keep lock in one piece. . . IMHO, they need to, at minimum, add one starting caliber piece both inside and outside. . . and beyond conklin and maybe cordy glenn, i don't see viable options on the veteran market. . . unless we can trade a 4th for tunsil, since o'brien done lost his mind. . .

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

I'm not opposed to drafting a LT, but I think like in past years there is a little too much value placed on some of the draft options this year. If we draft the best of what's left over at 15, then we run the risk of ending up with another Bolles.

That T class was one of the worst in years, this draft is top heavy, I’d agree if the Top 4 are already picked though.

Tunsil is Garett Boles, but with a better attitude.

Broncos should’ve traded Boles to BOB for two 1st round picks when they had the chance.

Originally Posted by dogfish

i'm 100% fine with either wills or wirfs as a RT. . . james is a sunk cost, and wilkinson is overmatched at tackle, and only under contract for one year. . . we actually have a bigger, more immediate need on the right side. . . risner is the only solid OL we have who's under contract for more than a year. . . i don't care if it's trade, free agency, the draft, or all of the above-- but they gotta give munchak more than than one good player to work with if we want him to keep lock in one piece. . . IMHO, they need to, at minimum, add one starting caliber piece both inside and outside. . . and beyond conklin and maybe cordy glenn, i don't see viable options on the veteran market. . . unless we can trade a 4th for tunsil, since o'brien done lost his mind. . .

A sunk cost that will cost us 13, 14 and 16 mil over the next 3 years. He's not going anywhere and this is an even numbered year, so we should get is best in 2020. No clue what happens in 2021. So, with that financial burden around the team's neck, I HIGHLY doubt we look for a replacement at RT. Not a chance we employ a back-up RT with 23 mil in guaranteed money over the next 2 years. You could make an argument for eating the 6 mil dead cap hit next year is this year is a flop, but he certainly isn't being replaced for 2020.

In all honesty, the only way I see Bolles not starting at LT next year is if we deal him and a pick to Washington for Williams. Other than that, I would suggest fans get used to at least one more year of him.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

I'm not opposed to drafting a LT, but I think like in past years there is a little too much value placed on some of the draft options this year. If we draft the best of what's left over at 15, then we run the risk of ending up with another Bolles.

I think I'd have graded any of the top six tackles in this draft higher than Bolles given his age and low intellect. and that's not just piling on. When you're here how horrible he graded on the mental components of the game and then you figure that he was already 24 years old when he was drafted I just had a very hard time with that pic from the word go. I much preferred Ryan ramczyk in that draft

And I don't know why we Are projecting Uber athletic tackles on the right side or the interior. Wirfs and wills will definitely need to relearn technique when they make their shift but I think they both can play left tackle in the NFL.

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

I think I'd have graded any of the top six tackles in this draft higher than Bolles given his age and low intellect. and that's not just piling on. When you're here how horrible he graded on the mental components of the game and then you figure that he was already 24 years old when he was drafted I just had a very hard time with that pic from the word go. I much preferred Ryan ramczyk in that draft

The one problem with Elway is he has a tendency to like "projects" and that is where we often get into trouble when they dont pan out.

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

And I don't know why we Are projecting Uber athletic tackles on the right side or the interior. Wirfs and wills we'll definitely need to relearn technique when they make their shift but I think they both can play left tackle in the NFL.

every year, we're told there's only one "natural" left tackle in the whole damn class, if that. . . but there's 32 starting LT spots in the NFL. . . somebody gotta play over there, whether they're an ideal fit or not. . .