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Thread: Too Fast?

  1. #1
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    Default Too Fast?

    So I'm watching the combine tonight and Michael Irvin made a comment that lead to a discussion about WR speed. He basically said that no WRs who run sub 4.4 own a gold jacket. The discussion ensued about some WRs may have too much speed and may not be able to break routes without telling the DB what they are doing. Some WRs waste their speed as they have to slow down to not get overthrown on play action and long developing plays. One of the commentators then said that only 3 sub 4.4 WRs have ever caught over 80 balls in a single season. DeSean Jackson and 2 others I forget. Indicated 4.45- 4.55 was the sweet spot for a WR.

    So with that said, would this change your perception of who you would want Denver to draft?

  2. #2

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    Well Randy Moss ran a 4.2, and a few others have 4.3's. Make no mistake some of the best seasons ever at WR were from pure burners.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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  4. #3
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    Laviska Shenault just ran a 4.58 and I'm here to tell you the guy plays so much faster than that in a game... So I do think straight line 40 speed can be deceiving.

    But there's no substitute for speed - so I'd rather take my chances on a guy if he's got good tape and also happens to be measurably faster than his peers. That Ruggs speed looks pretty elite.

  5. #4

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    Marvin Harrison ran a 4.3. Calvin Johnson ran a 4.3. Tim Brown ran a 4.3.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    Marvin Harrison ran a 4.3. Calvin Johnson ran a 4.3. Tim Brown ran a 4.3.
    Are you trying to say that Michael Irvin doesn't know what the hell he's talking about?

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  9. #6
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    No.

    Mecole Hardman and Tyreek Hill are not too fast. That’s absurd.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

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  11. #7
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    Ridiculous

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    Marvin Harrison ran a 4.3. Calvin Johnson ran a 4.3. Tim Brown ran a 4.3.
    And since the game has been around for so long, we'd have to look at people in the past eras who were running the equivalent of 4.3's in their era. Arguably, that is. Because to be fair the = of 4.3 doesn't account for the literal reality of a 4.3. Then, however, we could look at average arm strength of QB's for a measurement as well.

    Dan Marino hasn't played for a long time, but I don't think Prime Marino is getting 'outran' by his WR too often.

    John Elway says hello.

    Even Bradshaw had a cannon of an arm.

    You don't even have to be great as a QB and be a HoFer -- Flacco, Kerry Collins, or we can go to bust town and pick Russell from Oakland - what WR was outrunning that inaccurate cannon?

    Yikes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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    The other aspect to consider is need and fit. Does Denver "need" a burner to carry the load in their offense? No. What would be nice is having a burner that keeps the defense honest and opens up the entire field for Lock. If Denver were to draft Ruggs, it wouldn't be for the expectation of him leading the receiving corps, but to compliment it and bring value to it. That said...if someone else felt the same way and Jeudy or Lamb dropped to us...I'd be happy with a "slower" receiver as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27 View Post
    So I'm watching the combine tonight and Michael Irvin made a comment that lead to a discussion about WR speed. He basically said that no WRs who run sub 4.4 own a gold jacket. The discussion ensued about some WRs may have too much speed and may not be able to break routes without telling the DB what they are doing. Some WRs waste their speed as they have to slow down to not get overthrown on play action and long developing plays. One of the commentators then said that only 3 sub 4.4 WRs have ever caught over 80 balls in a single season. DeSean Jackson and 2 others I forget. Indicated 4.45- 4.55 was the sweet spot for a WR.

    So with that said, would this change your perception of who you would want Denver to draft?
    No because I never liked Speed BS at WR as the main attribute. Jackson and Hill are outliers not norms for a reason....This is also why I'm not sold on ruggs. If you cant seperate or Catch the ball in tight spaces, or run good routes your speed is useless. As a former WR to me you need to be able to seperate from a DB numero Uno off the line. If you suck off the line it doesnt matter what skillset you have, you then have to diversify and work on routes if your a 1 trick pony on go routes your celing is limited to the kelvin Benjamins of the world. If you dont have a great route tree, or cant hit the routes you do have well, your useless. If you cant catch with your hands you also wont last cause you have a shitty catch radius and DB's will figure that out on tape quickly if they are worth a salt. Sounds similar to our own WR issues outside of sutton.....thank god he put in the work on his routes and seperating off the line because he did have some struggles with it before last year, hamilton, Patrick and our other scrubs are scrubs for these reasons. Hamilton may have figured the seperating thing out he was better late last year, so fingers crossed......

    Thats why we would be stupid to go for a guy like ruggs simply because he has speed and we think he can open the defense up, for every tyreek hill there are plenty of first rd John Ross busts......
    Last edited by Elevation inc; 03-01-2020 at 03:40 PM.
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    John Ross had tons of red flags coming into the draft though. his route tree was limited. He had an injury history. Rugs feels different to me and I'm not advocating drafting rugs. as I've said before I feel like we need to go o line or cornerback in the first and if by some miracle Simmons dropped then you'd have to draft him. The only way I'm drafting a receiver with my first pick is if I can't trade out of the 15th slot I'm all the tackles and the three cornerbacks are drafted. I'm not saying to wait around until the third day because this draft is so deep at wide receiver. But I do think that Jalen reagor is a comprable choice to Henry rugg's and one of he or Mims or Aiyuk or Hamler will most assuredly be available with our second round pick.

  17. #12

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    We can't really just point to Ross, and I agree with that. We can point out busts all the time at all positions. But let's be honest, if the WR can't catch, and Ross is worthless, it doesn't matter how fast they run.

    Doesn't mean you don't take elite burners that beat that ass on the field.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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  19. #13
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    Like I said. I really believe ruggs is a totally different animal than Ross was.

  20. #14

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    Here's the breakdown - most WRs in the first round bust. Therefore most elite speed WR's bust. It's harder to find a ton of successful elite burners because you're not going to find a lot of guys in general running 4.2-4.3's. A 4.4 40 is a standard score for WR1's, and that's considered fast in the NFL, or the speed you need to be considered fast.

    I mean I can play with a lot of configurations here if we want.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  21. #15
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    Hopkins, Thomas, and Antonio Brown ran 4.56 or 4.57 so apparently that's the sweet spot. And as my guy jaded would say it's science
    Last edited by Jsteve01; 03-01-2020 at 08:55 PM.

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