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Thread: Broncos coach Vic Fangio: Starting rookie Drew Lock among QB options

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis View Post
    That play off game last year would have broke a weak qb.... it seemed to galvanize Jackson

    We need to see if lock has the same capacity to be an nfl qb
    That’s exactly the stuff you need to know.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    Suppose they DON'T play Drew Lock in 2019. Then what? Have you thought about that at all? Or are you all so drunk on the Orange Cool-Aid that you can't see the Dove Valley Emperor has no pants on?

    Suppose they DON'T play Lock, then what are they to do in 2020? They're obviously getting a top 5 pick, and possibly as high as #3. They could draft one of the top QB prospects, but why would they if Drew Lock is the future franchise QB?

    But, how can they know until he gets into some games? They can't.

    Unless Elway is just planning to punt on getting a franchise QB once again and tries to stiff Broncos Country with Joe Flacco or some other bum next season in an endless "we're not that far off" line of B.S. they've got to find their guy.

    If you think they are already committed to Drew Lock and just don't want to "ruin" him, why do you suppose they weren't even practicing him for a month when they could?

    Why did they wait till now to take him off IR?

    With the team at 3-8 why is there all this hesitation to start Lock, despite the fact that Brandon Allen led the team to its worst offensive performance in 30 years?

    This is not a team with a plan. They are floundering and are making it up as they go along. And Fangio and Elway are clearly not on the same page -- which is why Fangio is hesitating to either declare that Lock will be inactive this week again, and to hell with the fan and media reaction, or else to name him the starter.

    Why the waffling?

    The only answer is: Total Dysfunction in Dove Valley means they have no idea what they are going to do this Sunday yet, and Fangio has to argue it out with John Elway, let alone next season.
    Nah. I chalk the "floundering" up as typical coach speak. Why let the Chargers know who is going to be playing any sooner than they have to? Why raise the pressure on a rookie QB?

    Maybe Drew Lock is ready, maybe he's not. Right now we know that there is a QB on the roster who isn't ready though, and his name is Brandon Allen. The Broncos really can't do any worse by putting Lock in at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnderArmour View Post
    Nah. I chalk the "floundering" up as typical coach speak. Why let the Chargers know who is going to be playing any sooner than they have to? Why raise the pressure on a rookie QB?

    Maybe Drew Lock is ready, maybe he's not. Right now we know that there is a QB on the roster who isn't ready though, and his name is Brandon Allen. The Broncos really can't do any worse by putting Lock in at this point.
    Allen > Flacco, so theoretically Lock COULD be worse... I doubt it though
    Last edited by Davii; 11-26-2019 at 05:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davii View Post
    Allen > Flacco, so theoretically Lock COULD be worse... I doubt it though
    I wouldn't say that Allen>Flacco after these last few games. Mobility masks a lot of deficits, but now that defenses have figured out that Allen cannot beat them from the pocket nor consistently stretch them vertically (or consistently complete passes, for that matter), the offense has completely stalled. Scangarello tried to add gimmicks to mask the talent deficit of Allen, but defenses have figured those out too.

    Lock is a gunslinger, so the big concern is whether or not he turns the football over. Unfortunately, decision-making is one of those things that a coaching staff can never be absolutely sure of until a player is inserted into a live game. Frankly, that's all the more reason for Fangio to put him in there.

    I'm also curious if this ties in with Ju'wan James's health, and him potentially getting a try-out for LT ahead of next year's draft. The OLine is almost certain to get a shakeup next year, and maybe at the end of this year.

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    Lock & Allen to split reps this week... oh boy, here we go...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tripp View Post
    Lock & Allen to split reps this week... oh boy, here we go...
    Yeah it looks like things are trending toward Lock playing this week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnderArmour View Post
    Nah. I chalk the "floundering" up as typical coach speak. Why let the Chargers know who is going to be playing any sooner than they have to? Why raise the pressure on a rookie QB?

    Maybe Drew Lock is ready, maybe he's not. Right now we know that there is a QB on the roster who isn't ready though, and his name is Brandon Allen. The Broncos really can't do any worse by putting Lock in at this point.
    I totally agree they have absolutely nothing to lose by putting in Drew Lock. But, Fangio clearly doesn't want to do it and I think Adam Schefter is right that their "plan" is to start Lock the final two games.

    And I'd be shocked if Elway drafted a QB in the next draft despite having no idea whether Lock is really the answer at QB or not -- because they just won't give him enough of a chance to see!

    A lot of commentators think Elway still wants to put Joe Flacco back out there next season because he still thinks "we're not that far off!" He thinks he can tweak the roster a bit with the draft a FAs and take one more run at trying "win now!" with a veteran team.

    Shanahan won in the 90's with FA veterans. Kubiak and Elway won a SB with Manning and a bunch of FA veterans like DeMarcus Ware. Elway still thinks he can replicate that success despite the fact that NO TEAM in NFL history has ever won twice with elite defense and no offense.

    Happened only 4 times in 40 years - '85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs and 2015 Broncos and never to the same team twice. But, Elway doesn't have the patience to rebuild with a rookie QB so he thinks somehow he's the exception.

    Of course, he's not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoWave View Post
    Yeah it looks like things are trending toward Lock playing this week.
    Good.

    Whatever happens we need to see what the kid has to offer this team.

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  13. #39

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    I'm also curious if this ties in with Ju'wan James's health, and him potentially getting a try-out for LT ahead of next year's draft. The OLine is almost certain to get a shakeup next year, and maybe at the end of this year.
    Supposedly they want to put James back in there so they can move Wilkinson over to LT and rotate Wilkinson and Bolles. Bolles gets a holding penalty they can sit him for a few series. At least that is what Fangio mentioned a couple days ago when he talked about getting James back so they could have a "three man rotation" at the T position.

    But, it's unlikely they intend to use James at LT since that would put him at a position he hasn't played at all. Perhaps you are right that they might move him to LT, but his health is too unreliable to count on him being available next year.

    Fangio even ripped him in the press this week for being physically available but not mentally and emotionally available -- whatever that means.

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    This pretty much confirms it I think. He'd have to be so awful it would be unsafe to put him out there to not play if he's getting 3/4 of the reps.


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    It is (probably) Lock's time!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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    let it be written, let it be done. . . time to Lock this up!
    “When we do find that guy, we’ve got to have the continuity on the offensive side to where we can train him and develop him and get him there. This is our fourth offense in probably three or four years. Quarterbacks need to be developed. You don’t find one ready-made. We got to have a solid system in place for when we do go after whatever guy it may be, a young guy or a trade or whatnot.”
    - John Elway

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    let it be written, let it be done. . . time to Lock this up!
    We've got em locked in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoWave View Post
    This pretty much confirms it I think. He'd have to be so awful it would be unsafe to put him out there to not play if he's getting 3/4 of the reps.

    But CLEARLY Fangio doesn't want to do it!


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    I agree with Falco on:

    1)
    Having a solid OL & running game helps QBs succeed whether they’re rookies or not. Best recent examples of this, Mahomes & Prescott. The interesting thing to note about Dak, he was still doing good until Elliot got suspended, allowing teams to focus solely on him. The result was opposing Ds figured out what his Achilles’ heal was, which they continued to exploit even after Ezekiel came back.

    2) Every human being needs to gain the genuine self-confidence that can only come by having success in whatever they endeavor to do. Putting people in situations in which they can’t succeed due to problems that are beyond their control can ruin anyone. With as mind bogglingly complicate as the QB position is at the pro level, its even more crucial to give them the supporting cast they need to succeed early so they don’t get ruined.

    3) Even though elite QBs are able to overcome being on bad teams, there’s not 32 elite NFL QBs available in any given year. So most teams need to figure out how to win with a Nick Foles if that’s all they have to work with, which requires them to take serious the need to have a solid OL, running game, & D.

    I agree with Cugel on:

    1)
    Just because a QB has a horrible 1st year doesn’t guarantee that their career will be ruined. The best of the most recent examples of this that I can think of off the top of my head would be Payton Manning: 3-13 record his 1998 rookie year, 326 completions out of 575 attempts, 56.7 completion percentage, 3739 yards, 26 TDs, 4.5 TD %, 28 INTs, 4.9 INT %, & only 22 sacks. https://www.pro-football-reference.c...M/MannPe00.htm He rebounded from that year rather well.

    2) I didn’t watch the Jets/Raiders game, but lets pretend that Darnold did as bad as Shane led me to believe with his post. Its not unusual for QBs that are getting beat like a pinata for 2 or 3 quarters of a game to start seeing ghosts, nor is it unusual for them to see ghosts on a single play because of what he may have thought he saw out of the corner of his eye. If he’s consistently seeing them in the 1st quarter, especially if the D has yet to get to him that game, then he might have a problem. So I’d say that it’s a bit premature to call him a bust because he made a bad play or 2 during a game in which he shredded an opposing D.
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