Thread: Elway

Originally Posted by Cugel

Yes. This happened 4 times. First it was when he directed Paxton Lynch to dip his hand in my pocket. Then it was Trevor Siemian. Then Case Keesum. Then Joe Flacco. I'm tired of the Broncos taking my money for tickets and merch, having Elway tell me that they're in "win now mode" and putting the kind of product we saw on Thursday night out on the field.

If you're OK with Elway screwing you over, fine. Just keep believing in him.

That was actually a pretty funny rebuttal. Well done. Lol

Originally Posted by Northman

That was actually a pretty funny rebuttal. Well done. Lol

Eh. I will always have Broncos gear and tickets even if they go 0-16. I'm a fan. While it's OK to be upset with the management/player structure, I'm not one to bash the organization or it's leadership, especially since we won a multiple Superbowls due to one John Elway.

IMO, of course.

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

Eh. I will always have Broncos gear and tickets even if they go 0-16. I'm a fan. While it's OK to be upset with the management/player structure, I'm not one to bash the organization or it's leadership, especially since we won a multiple Superbowls due to one John Elway.

IMO, of course.

FTR, i disagree with Cugal on a lot of things Bronco related. I think he is a pretentious **** but that particular comment i found funny regardless. I will always be a Bronco fan but at this moment im just really indifferent to any praise or criticism of the team including John. Part of that is also the abysmal officiating that i feel is sucking my soul and will out of enjoying football on the professional level anymore. So its just a combination of things that has me disgruntled with the NFL these days. Lol

Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis

I’m not sure if bengals fans won a Superbowl in the last five years and had that winning coach step down due to health concerns, they would be so quick to damn the management

One bad proven hire. VJ

We have fangio 7 games in after picking up a team that was trending down. I think he needs time to prove himself or otherwise

But Bengals fans endured decades of losing, and if that owner even won a playoff game Vegas would lose millions.

It's not just one bad hire. It's a horrible hire, a QB carousel, a litany of bad drafts mitigated by two good ones, bungled FA moves, horrid cap decisions, and chronic issues such as OL, ILB, and TE that are never adequately fixed, on top of another hire that appears to be damned, with the only real success coming in a once in a lifetime scenario which allowed for free agents to sign here.

We just have a disagreement as to the scope of the issues, I guess. From your vantage point, if that's how you see it, I think your conclusion is logical.

From my viewpoint or vantage point, I think my conclusion is logical.

Originally Posted by underrated29

I hate this argument. Lucky? Lucky? Like 3 teams wanted manning first of all. Have the people here thought he was done.

Next- elway literally went out and built the best offense the NFL has Ever seen!!! It got them to the sb but blown out.
When manning and the offense didnt work he went out and built one of the best defenses the NFL has ever seen literally after the following year.

That is not lucky. That is not even close to lucky and manning had NOTHING to do with the second part. That is a lazy argument people post because they seem to think every team just magically moves on from a HOF qb within 3 years.


Luck has nothing to do with it. That was all Elway the whole time. 100%. And not debatable.

The colts never had the best offense in nfl history. The colts never had one of the best defenses in nfl history. So dont retort with free agents coming here for peyton. Also another false and lazy argument.

PFM win loss before Elway - 75%
PFM win loss after Elway - 75%

i dont get some of these comments. Im a Drew Lock fan, i watched every single Miz game, hell im still watching Miz games with kelly bryant as qb.

Drew Lock needs a year to learn the NFL, hell he was still learning to control his footwork back at Miz.

This is why the only real option is to cut flacco, and bring in a vet who actually wants to mentor Drew. The idea that we need to play Drew has long since passed. He should have started all year long if they wanted to use the year to develop him.

People just want to throw him in there and see so they can judge someone who is not ready. So they can then move on to the next QB like Herbert or Tua.

I am not for throwing Lock out there to judge him, if you do it, you do it to develop, not to make a decision on the draft and QBs. If you throw him out there, you give him the entire next year as well.

Otherwise, why did you even draft him? just to bail on him for Tua.

oh and for the record with this draft, im not drafting Herbert or Tua. Im taking a tackle, maybe even two if i can. Juwan James is the injury prone guy who fails to play when he is needed, same guy who he was in Miami. Broncos need a LT and a strong backup RT. They also need someone to replace Leary.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

PFM win loss before Elway - 75%
PFM win loss after Elway - 75%

fine, just go ahead and recklessly break the world with your heretical maths, and stuff!

Originally Posted by ShaneFalco

i dont get some of these comments. Im a Drew Lock fan, i watched every single Miz game, hell im still watching Miz games with kelly bryant as qb.

Drew Lock needs a year to learn the NFL, hell he was still learning to control his footwork back at Miz.

This is why the only real option is to cut flacco, and bring in a vet who actually wants to mentor Drew. The idea that we need to play Drew has long since passed. He should have started all year long if they wanted to use the year to develop him.

People just want to throw him in there and see so they can judge someone who is not ready. So they can then move on to the next QB like Herbert or Tua.

I am not for throwing Lock out there to judge him, if you do it, you do it to develop, not to make a decision on the draft and QBs. If you throw him out there, you give him the entire next year as well.

Otherwise, why did you even draft him? just to bail on him for Tua.

If Lock is another project than we need to move on to another QB who is more NFL ready. Not sure if i agree with your stance that Lock is a project but that is what you appear to make him sound like. I dont think he can save the season thats not why i want him out there. I want him to get out there so we can see where he is with his other intangibles. We need to see the things that he can do but if he is not ready than we took the wrong QB yet again which is a bad thing.

Originally Posted by ShaneFalco

i dont get some of these comments. Im a Drew Lock fan, i watched every single Miz game, hell im still watching Miz games with kelly bryant as qb.

Drew Lock needs a year to learn the NFL, hell he was still learning to control his footwork back at Miz.

This is why the only real option is to cut flacco, and bring in a vet who actually wants to mentor Drew. The idea that we need to play Drew has long since passed. He should have started all year long if they wanted to use the year to develop him.

People just want to throw him in there and see so they can judge someone who is not ready. So they can then move on to the next QB like Herbert or Tua.

I am not for throwing Lock out there to judge him, if you do it, you do it to develop, not to make a decision on the draft and QBs. If you throw him out there, you give him the entire next year as well.

Otherwise, why did you even draft him? just to bail on him for Tua.

I'd agree, but clearly Elway doesn't. He's still barrelling down the "Joe Flacco just needs a few pieces around him and then next year things will be better" track.

He drafted Lock not to start, but to be Brock Osweiler to Flacco's Manning. Unfortunately the fans can see what Elway is too deluded to recognize.

The Flacco train derailed. It crashed and burned. It's a pile of smoking rubble at the bottom of the ravine.

Time for Drew Lock because we recognize that it's either Lock, or else Tua or Fromm or Herbert or somebody else next year. But, Elway flat doesn't believe that.

He doesn't do "rebuilding". For him its always "win-now", thus he refuses to see what everybody else in America saw a long time ago. This team isn't remotely capable of competing in their own division let alone making a Super-Bowl run. And that will absolutely not change as long as Joe Flacco is the Qb.

If he starts Drew Lock after the bye-week @Vikings, fine. If not, then my worst fears about Elway's blindness and arrogance will have been proved.

Originally Posted by Northman

If Lock is another project than we need to move on to another QB who is more NFL ready. Not sure if i agree with your stance that Lock is a project but that is what you appear to make him sound like. I dont think he can save the season thats not why i want him out there. I want him to get out there so we can see where he is with his other intangibles. We need to see the things that he can do but if he is not ready than we took the wrong QB yet again which is a bad thing.

Every fan agrees with this. The need to see what Drew Lock can do is desperate. But, will they do it? Or will we only see Drew Lock for the final home games against the Lions and Raiders, and then Elway will try and screw us again next year with another dose of Joe Flacco? Or will they designate some other player to return from IR and we don't see Lock at all this season?

Why did Elway insist at his presser that they are certain to bring back Tim Patrick but not Drew Lock?

SF, I agree with you on Lock. I think the only QB I would take in the first round is Tua, and that's because I think he's an elite prospect. Lock is a very, very good prospect. That being said, we should be happy to have a first round talent QB on our team that we got in the second round.

Originally Posted by King87

SF, I agree with you on Lock. I think the only QB I would take in the first round is Tua, and that's because I think he's an elite prospect. Lock is a very, very good prospect. That being said, we should be happy to have a first round talent QB on our team that we got in the second round.

It's interesting to see Joel Klatt who broadcasts college football arguing that in addition to Tua, he thinks Herbert has the most talent and that he'd include Washington's Jacob Eason to Fromm and Tua and Herbert. He also likes LSU QB Joe Burrow: Joe Burrow now leading Heisman watch.

I'd say there are a number of intriguing prospects, if Elway were willing to go in the direction of drafting a QB in the first round. I doubt that he is, but we shall see.

Originally Posted by King87

SF, I agree with you on Lock. I think the only QB I would take in the first round is Tua, and that's because I think he's an elite prospect. Lock is a very, very good prospect. That being said, we should be happy to have a first round talent QB on our team that we got in the second round.

We've got indications that Lock is not going to flame out. Just why would we take an unknown in Tua? You'd only be trading or releasing one of them which makes little sense; unless we test Lock this year and conclude he's a bum.

I just saw this ESPN article by Legwold from a week ago. Worth a glance...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...-real-mounting

Edge rusher Von Miller is now 30 years old and in his ninth season. He was the first draft pick of Elway's tenure and is the only Broncos draftee from 2011 through 2018 on the current roster who has been named to a Pro Bowl. (Running back Phillip Lindsay and cornerback Chris Harris Jr. were undrafted Pro Bowl players.)

Many in the league point to Elway's long-standing relationship with director of player personnel Matt Russell as a potential issue during the post-Super Bowl lull. The Broncos lost two important voices in the personnel department during those years: former director of college scouting Adam Peters to the San Francisco 49ers and Tom Heckert to illness.

Since Manning retired 55 games ago, Joe Flacco is the fifth quarterback to start a game for the Broncos, Rich Scangarello is the fourth offensive coordinator, and Fangio is the third head coach.

"I don't care who you are, what kind of team you had, nobody is getting through that unscathed," one rival general manager said. "Every head coach, every coordinator wants a different kind of player, so you're constantly stocking for the new guy. Can't work, won't work, never has worked.

"And if you miss on the quarterback, you're f---ed. Get all three of those things [wrong], and you have the makings of a problem none of us wants."