Poll: Elway should be fired/resign.

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Thread: Elway

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis View Post
    Fair enough, we can disagree
    I just think that its ok to criticize the moves a team makes without it being "spoiled" as you call it. Do you feel that GB made a mistake in firing McCarthy? I just want to make sure i understand where you are coming from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    I just think that its ok to criticize the moves a team makes without it being "spoiled" as you call it. Do you feel that GB made a mistake in firing McCarthy? I just want to make sure i understand where you are coming from.
    McCarthy was there for years and was given time

    So I think they made the right call in getting rid of him and I think they made the right call in giving him time

    IMO difference was McCarthy was wasting maybe the greatest qb to ever play the game

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    I just think that its ok to criticize the moves a team makes without it being "spoiled" as you call it.
    For the record, so do I

    I vocally hated keenum, VJ and flacco

    But I’m not advocating for people to lose their jobs just yet, I think elway has earned another year to turn it round

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  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis View Post
    McCarthy was there for years and was given time

    So I think they made the right call in getting rid of him and I think they made the right call in giving him time

    IMO difference was McCarthy was wasting maybe the greatest qb to ever play the game
    Ok, but its been 5 years since our SB win and we have no real direction whether it be at the coaching level or player level. There isnt any real commitment to anything that we are doing right now. Do you think fans should just suck it up and deal? It would be one thing if it looked like we had a real plan but im just not seeing it.

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    I've come off the ledge a tad on Elway's comments yesterday - whether it's realistic or not, he can't throw in the towel on the season until we're mathematically out of contention... So through that lens, his comments on CHJ and Lock make some sense.

    If the team is somehow back in wild card contention (which is preposterous because they're terrible) then it would make more sense to bring back Patrick and Theo Riddick from IR than it would to bring back a rookie QB. And obviously you wouldn't trade CHJ if they were in playoff contention.

    And it also makes sense on his Sanders comments that he probably felt like Sanders forced his hand and he had to move earlier than he wanted to. Though I'd argue it may end up being a blessing in disguise because the market may have been dry be the time Elway felt comfortable giving up on the season.

    Some more here -
    https://www.9news.com/article/sports...d-d7b502c725b9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    Ok, but its been 5 years since our SB win and we have no real direction whether it be at the coaching level or player level. There isnt any real commitment to anything that we are doing right now. Do you think fans should just suck it up and deal? It would be one thing if it looked like we had a real plan but im just not seeing it.
    I think we ****** up bad with VJ

    If that one mistake was fixed we would be in a better position right now...... but for me, everything bad is as a result of that one decision

    I think fangio is too soon to tell if he is another VJ and if he is, then sure the lack of coach and qb is a problem.... but if lock is the answer and fangio becomes who we thought he was...... then everyone praises elway, and I think he has earned that chance

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  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by King87 View Post
    You said the Colts never once had the best offense ever, but they had PFM when he broke the TD record the first time. So they certainly had one of the absolute best offenses ever. They got blown out in the SB because of what? Manning couldn't throw the deep ball anymore and the Hawks admitted they could cheat on basically everything the offense had to do. John Elway was able to sign all those great defensive players to some nice deals for the team BECAUSE of PFM. You're not getting all those guys without PM because those guys wanted a ring. If you can't see the link between those FA signings and Manning, since Manning left when was the last time a FA gave us a discount? It's not a lazy argument so much as it's one that accounts for what happens. So sure, give JFE credit for landing Manning, but he didn't do shit after Manning.

    I'm so ******* tired of sacred cows. If that GM's last name wasn't Elway so much slack wouldn't have been given. So until John can land another Hall of Famer at QB, or build a great defense without a stud QB to be a FA attraction, Wave's point stands.



    They may hvae had one of the best offenses that year. It was not THE BEST OFFENSE THE NFL HAS EVER SEEN! By like a mile!! What we did will be hard to replicate for a while. As rules change and favor offenses, etc it will happen but not for a long long while.
    How we lost in the SB has no bearing on the hawks or Elway. We lost. Elway recognized that and in one fell swoop decided to switch the team from NFL best offense Ever! to NFL all time defense top 5 ever. Most teams do not ever get to say in the HISTORY of the NFL did they have a top 1 offense or a top 5 defense. HISTORICALLY. you can tell me all you want about manning having great offenses as a colt. But it is not even close to what we did and you know it. History knows it. It is not a debatable fact.

    Yes, a lot of those guys did come in because of manning. No disagreement. My disagreement is that people argue it was manning that brought in the those guys and made those teams and that is crap. Elway did. Manning had been in the league for like 15 years prior to coming here (I dont know how long he has been in the league). You are telling me all those years that all the free agents did not want to play with manning because he was a colt, but when he was a bronco they changed their mind? NO, Garbagio amigo! It does not fly. It cannot fly. They came here because elway rocked his face off with awesome deals and savvy negotiations.

    This point is further proved by the fact that we went out and made a top 5 defense after manning was clearly done. What was it 7tds and 15 ints for manning that year? Yeah, that SB win was not manning. Manning did not build that defense. Manning had no part of it. Manning had never had a defense which is why he lost so many SB and playoffs. Elway did that. Only Elway.

    Waves overall point stands and is valid. His contention that it is only because of manning and we lucked into is is not.


    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoWave View Post
    Yes, Elway did a nice job in closing the deal. He was lucky in that Manning was even available in the first place. But if the only way he's ever going to get good QBs here is if a HoF QB hits the market we're in trouble, because that happens just about never. As for the team he built around Manning yes that was great as well, but he's yet to show that he can get that kind of talent here without a star QB to help attract them.

    That was a great run and yes Elway does get a lot of credit for that, but he can't skate by on that forever. He eventually has to do it again.
    I agree he has to do it again.
    But finding a QB that is actually starter material is the most difficult thing to do in football. The only time we have ever won a SB or gone to one is when we have one of those QBs. This is why teams suck for years and years....Dolphins, Jets, Bills, 9ers, Browns, Titans, Skins, Rams, Cards, etc etc. Because they dont have one.
    This is why these teams are now relevant because they got their QB....Raiders, Cheifs, Browns (lol sorta), Rams, bills, Ravens, packers, pats.


    All the good teams have a QB. All the bad teams do not. The middle teams have a QB just good enough to start but not good enough to win. It is a QB league. Finding one is the hardest thing to do. So I will give Elway more than 3 years to find one knowing exactly what he can do with a team when he does! That said, and as I agreed with you, if we do not find out what we have in lock or do not draft a top qb this year (I know its going to be herbert and I am scared to death of that) then we will have big big problems.
    The Plan at the moment:

    Draft: Trade a 3rd and 6th this year to a team to move up and get a 2nd next year (this will happen).

    Players I want:
    Jake Ferguson (Jake Butt) or Jelani Woods or Jeremy Ruckert or Cade Otten (owen daniels) at TE- All 4th rd or later.
    Troy Anderson LB 3rd/4th rd (yay Timmy!)
    Neil Farrell, JR DL- run stuffer- bye purcell

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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by underrated29 View Post
    They may hvae had one of the best offenses that year. It was not THE BEST OFFENSE THE NFL HAS EVER SEEN! By like a mile!! What we did will be hard to replicate for a while. As rules change and favor offenses, etc it will happen but not for a long long while.
    How we lost in the SB has no bearing on the hawks or Elway. We lost. Elway recognized that and in one fell swoop decided to switch the team from NFL best offense Ever! to NFL all time defense top 5 ever. Most teams do not ever get to say in the HISTORY of the NFL did they have a top 1 offense or a top 5 defense. HISTORICALLY. you can tell me all you want about manning having great offenses as a colt. But it is not even close to what we did and you know it. History knows it. It is not a debatable fact.

    Yes, a lot of those guys did come in because of manning. No disagreement. My disagreement is that people argue it was manning that brought in the those guys and made those teams and that is crap. Elway did. Manning had been in the league for like 15 years prior to coming here (I dont know how long he has been in the league). You are telling me all those years that all the free agents did not want to play with manning because he was a colt, but when he was a bronco they changed their mind? NO, Garbagio amigo! It does not fly. It cannot fly. They came here because elway rocked his face off with awesome deals and savvy negotiations.

    This point is further proved by the fact that we went out and made a top 5 defense after manning was clearly done. What was it 7tds and 15 ints for manning that year? Yeah, that SB win was not manning. Manning did not build that defense. Manning had no part of it. Manning had never had a defense which is why he lost so many SB and playoffs. Elway did that. Only Elway.

    Waves overall point stands and is valid. His contention that it is only because of manning and we lucked into is is not.




    I agree he has to do it again.
    But finding a QB that is actually starter material is the most difficult thing to do in football. The only time we have ever won a SB or gone to one is when we have one of those QBs. This is why teams suck for years and years....Dolphins, Jets, Bills, 9ers, Browns, Titans, Skins, Rams, Cards, etc etc. Because they dont have one.
    This is why these teams are now relevant because they got their QB....Raiders, Cheifs, Browns (lol sorta), Rams, bills, Ravens, packers, pats.


    All the good teams have a QB. All the bad teams do not. The middle teams have a QB just good enough to start but not good enough to win. It is a QB league. Finding one is the hardest thing to do. So I will give Elway more than 3 years to find one knowing exactly what he can do with a team when he does! That said, and as I agreed with you, if we do not find out what we have in lock or do not draft a top qb this year (I know its going to be herbert and I am scared to death of that) then we will have big big problems.
    My problem with Elway's QB whiffs isn't even that he's missed on several. Like you said, that's the hardest position to hit on and you're gonna miss way more than you hit. My problem is moreso that he seems obsessed with the tall, slow, big armed QBs who were prototypical in the 80s and 90s but not necessarily today. I'd rather he whiff on a Baker/Kyler type QB than keep going to the well with the tall guys. It's becoming as big a meme as Al Davis just drafting the fastest guy who can't do anything else.

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  15. #39
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    I think we are all with you there.
    The Plan at the moment:

    Draft: Trade a 3rd and 6th this year to a team to move up and get a 2nd next year (this will happen).

    Players I want:
    Jake Ferguson (Jake Butt) or Jelani Woods or Jeremy Ruckert or Cade Otten (owen daniels) at TE- All 4th rd or later.
    Troy Anderson LB 3rd/4th rd (yay Timmy!)
    Neil Farrell, JR DL- run stuffer- bye purcell

  16. #40

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    I’m hoping that the fact that Elway traded Sanders means John realizes his team isn’t in “win from now on” mode anymore. It’s the first step in admitting to himself that his team is officially rebuilding. Hopefully Sanders is just the beginning of him dealing vets.

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  18. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoWave View Post
    If he directs the coaches to play Lock as soon as he's eligible and he deals Harris and admits a rebuild, I'd give him one more chance to right things. If we stick with Flacco and he stubbornly acts like we're still trying to win now, I'm done with him.

    I hated pretty much all his comments today though, and I'm not all that confident he'll do any of those things I listed. It's hard to admit, but it really might be just about time for him to go.
    I agree with everything you said, except that I have zero confidence that Elway either gets it or ever will get it. His ego demands that his organization be on top - NOW, and he hasn't got the patience to build properly through the draft even though that means a period of perhaps 2 or 3 years where you're NOT "winning now."

    The Raiders, the Dolphins, the Jets, the Browns, the Cardinals all are in the process. The 49ers and Rams and Eagles went through it and emerged as solid teams.

    When you lose a Hall of Fame QB like Elway or Peyton there is no way to "win now" unless you can draft an Andrew Luck. And the Broncos have never been in position to draft an obvious generational player like him.

    So, I fully expect Elway is waiting to see if the Broncos can "turn things around" meaning that they win the next 2 games. Then he can stick to his imbecilic Joe Flacco is "in his prime" B.S. for another season and delay the rebuilding process he hates.

    Idiot. There's no way around it. His stubborn denial of reality is just destroying the franchise.

  19. #42

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    Joel Klatt summed it up perfectly this AM on 104.3 the Fan:

    "If the ball isn't out in less than 2.5 to 2.75 seconds in this west coast offense, there's a huge problem. And that problem is the QB. Of the eight sacks Flacco suffered Thursday night that were attributable to the offense, virtually every one of those sacks he held the ball for 2.75 seconds. Here's the numbers. 2.71, 2.88, 3.16, 3.27, 3.12, 3.38, 3.03. Here's the problem. He's holding the ball for 3 seconds! You can't do that! You can't even do that in college!" -- Joel Klatt

    "This league is built for 8-8. This league is built for NFL purgatory. It's built for teams that think they're good enough, but really aren't. And it plays on that vanity from an organizational perspective, of teams that think "well, we probably could make the playoffs if this or this happens. I tell you, being a wild card team in the NFL outside of a couple of years with teams with elite QBs . [ex: Steelers, Packers]. . I think being a wild card team is one of the worst things you can be. I want A's or I want F's. And I think it would be smart for Denver to start thinking about how do we become an A football team."
    They need a franchise QB or any development they do with the rest of the team is completely pointless. And Joe Flacco is just flat not the answer moving forward.

    John Elway hasn't admitted it yet because that would raise the question -- "why do you keep making such obvious blunders?" Everybody in the league just assumed that Flacco wasn't good enough -- except in Denver.

    If Elway has to admit the Joe Flacco experiment was a disaster, like the Case Keenum experiment was a disaster, like the Paxton Lynch experiment was a disaster, like the Trevor Siemian experiment was a disaster, then who can he point the finger at?

    He has to look in the mirror and admit "I just suck at my job." And he just can't do that. It would take an owner willing to pull the plug. Unfortunately for the Broncos there is no owner. Joe Ellis isn't going to fire Elway. We're just stuck in loserville for the foreseeable future.

  20. #43
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    Man, at some point, Elway must have stolen cugels lunch money.

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  22. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoJoe View Post
    Man, at some point, Elway must have stolen cugels lunch money.
    Yes. This happened 4 times. First it was when he directed Paxton Lynch to dip his hand in my pocket. Then it was Trevor Siemian. Then Case Keesum. Then Joe Flacco. I'm tired of the Broncos taking my money for tickets and merch, having Elway tell me that they're in "win now mode" and putting the kind of product we saw on Thursday night out on the field.

    If you're OK with Elway screwing you over, fine. Just keep believing in him.

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  24. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    Yes. This happened 4 times. First it was when he directed Paxton Lynch to dip his hand in my pocket. Then it was Trevor Siemian. Then Case Keesum. Then Joe Flacco. I'm tired of the Broncos taking my money for tickets and merch, having Elway tell me that they're in "win now mode" and putting the kind of product we saw on Thursday night out on the field.

    If you're OK with Elway screwing you over, fine. Just keep believing in him.
    You poor thing. I feel sorry for you, but not for the reason you think.

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