Thread: Chris Harris: Pay me or trade me

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

What does the tag look like next year?

$16 mil this year for DBs. $15 in 2018. Probably 17'ish next year.

Originally Posted by Cugel

There's not much point in a one year deal unless Elway thinks the team has a realistic chance to win a SB this year, which would be totally delusional.

It's great for Chris Harris. He gets paid this year, and next year he becomes a FA and will get around $17m or more -- as long as he continues to play at his current high level and doesn't suffer a devastating injury.

So, it's a risk for him, but the upside is a new 3 year deal with perhaps $30M + in guarantees. For the Broncos it pretty much sucks though.

They pay more this year, and don't even have him on the roster next year.

What? $17 million, I'm not buying that.

Originally Posted by SR

There isn't a team in the NFL that will pay Chris Harris $17M per year.

Shows what you know. Not much:

Xavien Howard signed a five year, $75.25 million extension with the Dolphins on May 9, 2019. All contract details come via a report from PFT so please credit them if using these numbers. Howard received $27.18 million fully guaranteed at signing and $46 million in total guarantees.

Josh Norman signed a five year, $75 million contract with the Washington Redskins on April 22, 2016. Norman received $50 million in guarantees, $36.5 million of which is fully guaranteed at signing. Per Rich Tandler, Norman received a $15 million signing bonus and had both of his 2016 and 2017 base salaried guaranteed.

Josh Norman signed that contract in 2016. Today it would be far higher. Chris Harris is a top 5 CB in the NFL, and key player in the Super Bowl and numerous AFC playoff games. He's been All-Pro twice and pro-bowler every year including last year.

Next year the salary cap will be much higher, and salaries will go up. They go up every single year. Just like clockwork.

And every year out of touch fans like you say things like "the Broncos shouldn't pay him! IT's too much! Too much!"

It's always "too much" because the fans are used to what things cost 4 or 5 years ago and aren't really paying attention.

There are six CBs in the NFL making over $14m a year including Trumaine Johnson, Xavier Rhodes, Patrick Peterson and Kyle Fuller, and Chris Harris is better than almost all of them.

If he were a FA this year he'd get significantly more than $15m. That's why his agent is demanding that much. He knows that if the Broncos are willing to pay Harris $15m, and he's under contract for $8m, if he were a FA there would be a bidding war for him.

There are not many All Pro CBs who hit the FA market.

Know who the FA CBs were this March?

Ronald Darby, CB, Eagles. Age: 25.
Re-signed with Eagles (1 year, $8.5 million)

"Ronald Darby is not an elite cornerback"

Steven Nelson, CB, Chiefs. Age: 25.
Signed with Steelers (3 years, $25.5 million)

Steven Nelson was Kansas City's best outside cornerback last year. That's not saying much

Trevor Williams (RFA), CB, Chargers. Age: 25.
Trevor Williams had an injury-ravaged 2018 campaign. Williams was hobbled with an early ankle injury, then was lost for the year because of a knee issue.

Other CBs included Bryce Callahan and Karim Jackson, both of whom signed here, and neither of whom is remotely as good as Chris Harris.

None of these stiffs compares with Harris. There was not any truly elite top 5 CBs in FA this year and there won't be many next year either. He's not too old at 29 right now.

He'll easily get $17m next year and they know it.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

What? $17 million, I'm not buying that.

If you want elite players, and they are FAs they get elite pay. That's how it's always worked.

He's NOT a FA, he's under contract so of course the Broncos aren't going to pay him that. Probably not $15m. They don't have to of course.

If they are offering a 1 year deal and letting him hit FA next year, then it will obviously be somewhere more than $8m he's getting this year, but way less than the $15m he's demanding for a long term deal.

That long term deal is for THIS year, not next. Next year the price goes up!

Do you fans really not understand that whatever Chris Harris thinks the Broncos should be willing to pay him for a long term deal MUST necessarily be less than what another team would offer him? And that his agent must know what he would get? And that it must be more than $15m a year?

He's under contract guys. He can't get from the Broncos what he would get on the free market as a free agent. It must be less, because the Broncos bargaining position is strong. They COULD just insist that he show up and play under his existing contract for $8m.

What's he going to do? Sit out? Then they fine his ass every single game day, he loses his salary. A LOT of salary. That will very quickly add up.

No, his only leverage is the implied threat that an unhappy Chris Harris would be disruptive or a distraction. He can't FORCE them to pay him. So, they will ultimately pay him certainly no more than he demands. And that demand must be less than what he would get on the free market. Otherwise the Broncos would never pay him that much.

The Broncos aren't going to pay MORE than the market rate for him since they don't have to. So, if $15m is the bottom of the market, he must be worth MORE now, and will be worth still MORE next season.

I really don't see how you people miss this.

Cugel, tell us about the time Harris made that spectacular interception on 2pt conversion in the afc championship that single handedly put the Broncos in the super bowl again. I'll never get tired of it.

Originally Posted by Cugel

Do you fans really not understand that whatever Chris Harris thinks the Broncos should be willing to pay him for a long term deal MUST necessarily be less than what another team would offer him? And that his agent must know what he would get? And that it must be more than $15m a year?

He's under contract guys. He can't get from the Broncos what he would get on the free market as a free agent. It must be less, because the Broncos bargaining position is strong. They COULD just insist that he show up and play under his existing contract for $8m.

What's he going to do? Sit out? Then they fine his ass every single game day, he loses his salary. A LOT of salary. That will very quickly add up.

No, his only leverage is the implied threat that an unhappy Chris Harris would be disruptive or a distraction. He can't FORCE them to pay him. So, they will ultimately pay him certainly no more than he demands. And that demand must be less than what he would get on the free market. Otherwise the Broncos would never pay him that much.

The Broncos aren't going to pay MORE than the market rate for him since they don't have to. So, if $15m is the bottom of the market, he must be worth MORE now, and will be worth still MORE next season.

I really don't see how you people miss this.

You're leaving out the age quotient man. So although numbers will go up next year you're forgetting that he'll also be a year older and as he's already passed 30 he's already on the wrong side of that equation. He was an average athlete to begin with. So as his average athletic skills begin to diminish he'll be completely technique corner. That has its pluses and minuses.

Originally Posted by Cugel

If you want elite players, and they are FAs they get elite pay. That's how it's always worked.

He's NOT a FA, he's under contract so of course the Broncos aren't going to pay him that. Probably not $15m. They don't have to of course.

If they are offering a 1 year deal and letting him hit FA next year, then it will obviously be somewhere more than $8m he's getting this year, but way less than the $15m he's demanding for a long term deal.

That long term deal is for THIS year, not next. Next year the price goes up!

How old is Harris? Chris is a very good corner but elite? I don't think I would put him that category.

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

You're leaving out the age quotient man. So although numbers will go up next year you're forgetting that he'll also be a year older and as he's already passed 30 he's already on the wrong side of that equation. He was an average athlete to begin with. So as his average athletic skills begin to diminish he'll be completely technique corner. That has its pluses and minuses.

He'll have a couple of good seasons left at his current ability. He showed no signs of decline last year. Right now he's still 29. They sign him for a 3 or 4 year contract, with only the first two years guaranteed. In the third year they either extend him or can easily turn him into a safety. He'd be a great one too.

I'm done arguing about this with idiots. Watch and see. Harris will sign for 1 year here, and next year he's going to walk and get between around $15-$17m a year on a 3 or 4 year deal with a couple years guaranteed. It will be more than what Josh Norman got.

He will almost certainly not get this from the Broncos but some team will conclude that they just need an elite CB for a couple of seasons to give themselves a chance to win a SB. For some defenses, and elite CB is the missing piece. He will get his money. If Bryce Callahan is worth $8m a year and Carlos Darby from that crappy Chiefs defense is worth $8.5 Harris is worth a lot more than that. Even mediocre CBs are getting paid these days.

I thought it best to sit down with Jason Fitzgerald of Over The Cap to give you his thoughts.

Our conversation has been lightly edited for clarity.

1st and 10:
I’m sure you’ve seen the contract stalemate between the Broncos and Chris Harris Jr. I’m curious what you believe Harris’ market value is at the present moment?

Fitzgerald: I think Harris would probably fall in the $12.5 to $13.5 million per year range.

That's for this year. Next year of course the salary cap goes up more, so whatever CBs are on the market will get more.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

How old is Harris? Chris is a very good corner but elite? I don't think I would put him that category.

Super Bowl champion (50)
4× Pro Bowl (2014–2016, 2018)
First-team All-Pro (2016)
2× Second-team All-Pro (2014, 2015)
PFWA All-Rookie Team (2011)

Three times first and second team All-Pro, 4 times pro-bowl is elite.

Look, I don't really care if they trade him. But, I get really angry when John Elway lies to the fans and tries to blow smoke up our asses. Either the team is trying to win now, or they're not.

If they trade or don't re-sign Chris Harris they are not. Period. But, I'm not buying AT ALL the "we're just fine without Chris Harris!"

They said crap like that after they lost Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan and Demarcus Ware and TJ Ward too. "We'll be fine."

Well, they were NOT fine. Last year they still had a good defense, but it was a shell of the 2015 wrecking crew that won the SB. Since they don't have an elite QB they either have to have an elite defense or they simply have NO chance of getting to the playoffs and winning.

If however, Elway wants to admit that they are just in rebuild now mode, then fine. Start Drew Lock and get him some experience. And trade Chris Harris to somebody who wants to pay him. Tank for a season or two while the rookie learns how to play in the NFL. Then roll with a QB who can compete long term with Pat Mahomes.

Amd if Lock doesn t work, then go back in the draft in 2020 and get Fromm or Tua.

Originally Posted by Cugel

Look, I don't really care if they trade him. But, I get really angry when John Elway lies to the fans and tries to blow smoke up our asses. Either the team is trying to win now, or they're not.

If they trade or don't re-sign Chris Harris they are not. Period. But, I'm not buying AT ALL the "we're just fine without Chris Harris!"

They said crap like that after they lost Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan and Demarcus Ware and TJ Ward too. "We'll be fine."

Well, they were NOT fine. Last year they still had a good defense, but it was a shell of the 2015 wrecking crew that won the SB. Since they don't have an elite QB they either have to have an elite defense or they simply have NO chance of getting to the playoffs and winning.

If however, Elway wants to admit that they are just in rebuild now mode, then fine. Start Drew Lock and get him some experience. And trade Chris Harris to somebody who wants to pay him. Tank for a season or two while the rookie learns how to play in the NFL. Then roll with a QB who can compete long term with Pat Mahomes.

Amd if Lock doesn t work, then go back in the draft in 2020 and get Fromm or Tua.

Lol

Originally Posted by Cugel

Shows what you know. Not much:





Josh Norman signed that contract in 2016. Today it would be far higher. Chris Harris is a top 5 CB in the NFL, and key player in the Super Bowl and numerous AFC playoff games. He's been All-Pro twice and pro-bowler every year including last year.

Next year the salary cap will be much higher, and salaries will go up. They go up every single year. Just like clockwork.

And every year out of touch fans like you say things like "the Broncos shouldn't pay him! IT's too much! Too much!"

It's always "too much" because the fans are used to what things cost 4 or 5 years ago and aren't really paying attention.

There are six CBs in the NFL making over $14m a year including Trumaine Johnson, Xavier Rhodes, Patrick Peterson and Kyle Fuller, and Chris Harris is better than almost all of them.

If he were a FA this year he'd get significantly more than $15m. That's why his agent is demanding that much. He knows that if the Broncos are willing to pay Harris $15m, and he's under contract for $8m, if he were a FA there would be a bidding war for him.

There are not many All Pro CBs who hit the FA market.

Know who the FA CBs were this March?






Other CBs included Bryce Callahan and Karim Jackson, both of whom signed here, and neither of whom is remotely as good as Chris Harris.

None of these stiffs compares with Harris. There was not any truly elite top 5 CBs in FA this year and there won't be many next year either. He's not too old at 29 right now.

He'll easily get $17m next year and they know it.

My favorite part of this post is that $75 million over 5 years somehow went from $15M per year in 2016 when Josh Norman got it to $17M per year when Xavien Howard signed his two weeks ago.

Easily my favorite comedic moment of this post.

Really it could be the agent holding him out there. And really lost a bit respect for him. Usually the classiest player in the league.