Thread: Chris Harris: Pay me or trade me

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

Originally Posted by Cugel

There wasn't "hysteria" there was very well founded anger at the stupidity of wanting to trade Jay Cutler for Matt Cassel. That was painfully stupid then and it's not any better now that we know Cutler never achieved greatness that his athleticism promised.

That idiot move where McMoron tried to trade for Cassell, only to have it blow up in his face and then lied to everybody about everything was an early warning sign, like the first winds of a hurricane. Hurricane McDaniels, that destroyed everything and left a scorched earth behind.

Imbecilic 1st and 2nd round picks like Robert Ayers, Alphonso Smith and Darcel McBath, worse personnel moves, going 2-8 to finish the season as the wheels fell off. Going 4-12 the next year. Spygate. Screaming at coaches that they better not tell Pat Bowlen about Spygate. Etc., etc.

The whole Jay Cutler fiasco was early proof that McMoron was going to be a disaster. It wasn't "hysteria".

Trading Cutler was brilliant. A lot of other moves were bad, but that sure as hell wasn’t one them.

IIRC people here were losing their minds that Cutty was going to be traded.

Originally Posted by Shazam!

IIRC people here were losing their minds that Cutty was going to be traded.

They were.

Originally Posted by Cugel

What does it have to do with the fans???

I don't think Joe Flacco, plus plugging a few holes and getting some not-totally-terrible coaching is going to lead this team to 11 wins and the division title or something.

But, every move Elway has made so far insists that he disagrees. They went out and signed Joe Flacco to an $18.5 m contract. They signed the highest paid RT in the NFL in Ja'Wuan James and acquired Kareem Jackson and Bryce Callahan to strengthen the secondary. They went out and paid big money to lure Mike Munchak to coach up the OL.

Every single move they made this off-season, including drafting a TE in the first round to plug their second biggest hole on offense, was to strengthen the team for THIS SEASON!

Now, IF Elway did the opposite, and said "We went 11-21 the last 2 seasons, so we're a rebuilding team. We're keeping Case Keenum as a backup, drafting Drew Lock, and starting the rookie because he's our future" that would be OK with me and a LOT of fans.

Pick your lane. Are you rebuilding or are you attempting to compete now?

Because if it's the latter, they need Chris Harris. He's irreplaceable this season and next. Who's their #1 CB if he's gone? Who's guarding Antonio Brown? A crap sandwich is what that is.

IF they are rebuilding for the future, then fine. Get rid of Harris for a 3rd round pick, which is about all they'd get, and just roll with younger players.

But, don't screw yourself by trying to do 2 contradictory things at the same time! This team cannot be both a "rebuilding team" and a "compete now" team. IT don't work. That delusion that "we're better than our record" was what was wrong with them the last 3 years.

It’s not a contradiction to not overpay for for a player who’s teetering on his best being behind him. Unlike the fans Elway doesn’t have the luxury of too much sentimentality. He’s win now and for now on. Chris is the one who said 15 mil or trade me. Elway has not once said or done anything to demonstrate he wanted Chris gone. Chris and his agent put this on front street. Elway’s playing th cards he was dealt.
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EDIT: Klis tweeted today that elway and CHJ agent working on short term deal. More work to be done

Originally Posted by Cugel

What does it have to do with the fans???

I don't think Joe Flacco, plus plugging a few holes and getting some not-totally-terrible coaching is going to lead this team to 11 wins and the division title or something.

But, every move Elway has made so far insists that he disagrees. They went out and signed Joe Flacco to an $18.5 m contract. They signed the highest paid RT in the NFL in Ja'Wuan James and acquired Kareem Jackson and Bryce Callahan to strengthen the secondary. They went out and paid big money to lure Mike Munchak to coach up the OL.

Every single move they made this off-season, including drafting a TE in the first round to plug their second biggest hole on offense, was to strengthen the team for THIS SEASON!

Now, IF Elway did the opposite, and said "We went 11-21 the last 2 seasons, so we're a rebuilding team. We're keeping Case Keenum as a backup, drafting Drew Lock, and starting the rookie because he's our future" that would be OK with me and a LOT of fans.

Pick your lane. Are you rebuilding or are you attempting to compete now?

Because if it's the latter, they need Chris Harris. He's irreplaceable this season and next. Who's their #1 CB if he's gone? Who's guarding Antonio Brown? A crap sandwich is what that is.

IF they are rebuilding for the future, then fine. Get rid of Harris for a 3rd round pick, which is about all they'd get, and just roll with younger players.

But, don't screw yourself by trying to do 2 contradictory things at the same time! This team cannot be both a "rebuilding team" and a "compete now" team. IT don't work. That delusion that "we're better than our record" was what was wrong with them the last 3 years.

I believe it was your post that rambled on about how you, a fan, would be butthurt.

Looks like the Broncos are also offering Harris Jr a short term deal. I prefer to have Harris long term but if no deal is reached and teams aren’t beating the doors down to trade for him then might as well sweeten his contract this year. This means he would hit free agency the year after. We really do need him here and it buys us a little more time to figure it out. We will have way more cap next year to do this anyway. Good news imo of both sides are ok with that.

Originally Posted by Jaded

I believe it was your post that rambled on about how you, a fan, would be butthurt.

I would be "butthurt" because it means Elway is an idiot, not because the team is losing Harris. HE's the one who keeps insisting that "Flacco is in his prime!" Not me.

I don't think Flacco is in "his prime" at all. I think this is an 8 win team at best. But, Elway made a bunch of decisions that all line up one way -- win now!

If he trades away Chris Harris they should never have signed Flacco, or acquired
Callahan or Ju'wuan James or these other high priced FAs. They should forget about trying to compete because they are NOT going to compete in the division without Harris.

It's cut and dried. They need Chris Harris to compete this year and next. They have no other top CBs, at all. He isn't "overpriced" at $15m. Not remotely. He's one of the top 5 CBs in football and irreplaceable -- this year and next anyway.

They need to find a way to just pay him the money.

Elway can't argue "we're competing" with one breath and "we can't afford Harris" with the other. And those idiot fans who keep saying "I support Elway!" are just wrong.

NOBODY in the NFL community -- the media, other teams, nobody who has commented on this situation can possibly believe the Broncos are stupid enough to part ways with Harris.

Such a decision simply cannot be supported as a good decision. It isn't.

Unless you're trying to "rebuild not reboot." THEN it doesn't matter if you're losing Harris. You're not trying to compete anyway.

But, in that case they should Start Drew Lock Immediately! Forget about trying to compete! Put the kid in now and see what we have got!

Then NEXT year Denver will either have a franchise QB and be able to try and rebuild with draft picks to compete in 2020 and 2021. OR they will realize "this Lock kid sucks! It doesn't look like we have a winner here."

And they can move up a few spots in the draft and get a top QB prospect like Fromm or Tua.

Pick your lane Elway and be consistent! That's all.

Originally Posted by DenBronx

Looks like the Broncos are also offering Harris Jr a short term deal. I prefer to have Harris long term but if no deal is reached and teams aren’t beating the doors down to trade for him then might as well sweeten his contract this year. This means he would hit free agency the year after. We really do need him here and it buys us a little more time to figure it out. We will have way more cap next year to do this anyway. Good news imo of both sides are ok with that.

He's under contract this year anyway. The only question is whether they keep him for 3 years. And if they don't offer Harris his money this year then next year he walks.

If he becomes a FA NEXT year they aren't going to be able to keep him for 2020 at $15m. That is already a "home town discount" because other CBs just got $17m a year and the price keeps going up, not down. Next year Harris will get $17 or $18m and all the fans will keep screaming "it's too much!" And it won't be "too much" it will be the going rate for top CBs. That's what they get as the salary cap keeps going up.

Idiot fans who always support management, not the players always think whatever the top players get is "Too much!" Except for the fans of whatever team Harris goes to. They will love getting Harris at that price of course.

Guys it's simple. The ONLY reason to have Joe Flacco as your starting QB this year is if Elway is trying to win the division THIS year. Because Joe Flacco obviously is NOT your long term starting franchise QB, he's your "win now" QB.

Nobody can think Flacco is the long term answer because he isn't. They drafted Drew Lock because he is NOT the long term answer. But, Elway isn't looking for a long-term QB who they can rebuild with. He wants to win now!

But, they can't "win Now!" without Harris, so if he's going to trade Harris, what is Elway doing screwing around with Flacco and not starting Lock immediately?

Originally Posted by Cugel

Guys it's simple. The ONLY reason to have Joe Flacco as your starting QB this year is if Elway is trying to win the division THIS year. Because Joe Flacco obviously is NOT your long term starting franchise QB, he's your "win now" QB.

Nobody can think Flacco is the long term answer because he isn't. They drafted Drew Lock because he is NOT the long term answer. But, Elway isn't looking for a long-term QB who they can rebuild with. He wants to win now!

But, they can't "win Now!" without Harris, so if he's going to trade Harris, what is Elway doing screwing around with Flacco and not starting Lock immediately?

Flacco's duration in Denver is all hinged on his performance out the gate. Its his job to lose this year and maybe next. There is no long term commitment.

Originally Posted by Cugel

What does it have to do with the fans???

I don't think Joe Flacco, plus plugging a few holes and getting some not-totally-terrible coaching is going to lead this team to 11 wins and the division title or something.

But, every move Elway has made so far insists that he disagrees. They went out and signed Joe Flacco to an $18.5 m contract. They signed the highest paid RT in the NFL in Ja'Wuan James and acquired Kareem Jackson and Bryce Callahan to strengthen the secondary. They went out and paid big money to lure Mike Munchak to coach up the OL.

Every single move they made this off-season, including drafting a TE in the first round to plug their second biggest hole on offense, was to strengthen the team for THIS SEASON!

Now, IF Elway did the opposite, and said "We went 11-21 the last 2 seasons, so we're a rebuilding team. We're keeping Case Keenum as a backup, drafting Drew Lock, and starting the rookie because he's our future" that would be OK with me and a LOT of fans.

Pick your lane. Are you rebuilding or are you attempting to compete now?

Because if it's the latter, they need Chris Harris. He's irreplaceable this season and next. Who's their #1 CB if he's gone? Who's guarding Antonio Brown? A crap sandwich is what that is.

IF they are rebuilding for the future, then fine. Get rid of Harris for a 3rd round pick, which is about all they'd get, and just roll with younger players.

But, don't screw yourself by trying to do 2 contradictory things at the same time! This team cannot be both a "rebuilding team" and a "compete now" team. IT don't work. That delusion that "we're better than our record" was what was wrong with them the last 3 years.

Well as JSteve asked how is draft Lock about winning this year?

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

Originally Posted by Cugel

What does it have to do with the fans???

I don't think Joe Flacco, plus plugging a few holes and getting some not-totally-terrible coaching is going to lead this team to 11 wins and the division title or something.

But, every move Elway has made so far insists that he disagrees. They went out and signed Joe Flacco to an $18.5 m contract. They signed the highest paid RT in the NFL in Ja'Wuan James and acquired Kareem Jackson and Bryce Callahan to strengthen the secondary. They went out and paid big money to lure Mike Munchak to coach up the OL.

Every single move they made this off-season, including drafting a TE in the first round to plug their second biggest hole on offense, was to strengthen the team for THIS SEASON!

Now, IF Elway did the opposite, and said "We went 11-21 the last 2 seasons, so we're a rebuilding team. We're keeping Case Keenum as a backup, drafting Drew Lock, and starting the rookie because he's our future" that would be OK with me and a LOT of fans.

Pick your lane. Are you rebuilding or are you attempting to compete now?

Because if it's the latter, they need Chris Harris. He's irreplaceable this season and next. Who's their #1 CB if he's gone? Who's guarding Antonio Brown? A crap sandwich is what that is.

IF they are rebuilding for the future, then fine. Get rid of Harris for a 3rd round pick, which is about all they'd get, and just roll with younger players.

But, don't screw yourself by trying to do 2 contradictory things at the same time! This team cannot be both a "rebuilding team" and a "compete now" team. IT don't work. That delusion that "we're better than our record" was what was wrong with them the last 3 years.

Well as JSteve asked how is draft Lock about winning this year?

Elway said to win from now on. Denver clearly needed depth at QB and better play from the offense

Originally Posted by Shazam!

Elway said to win from now on. Denver clearly needed depth at QB and better play from the offense

I know. I think its absurd to think a GM has only one of lanes to choose form the rebuild lane or win now lane. Both things can be done if the core of your team is solid. Obviously Elway thinks it is.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

Originally Posted by Shazam!

Elway said to win from now on. Denver clearly needed depth at QB and better play from the offense

I know. I think its absurd to think a GM has only one of lanes to choose form the rebuild lane or win now lane. Both things can be done if the core of your team is solid. Obviously Elway thinks it is.

And I didn't even need seven paragraphs.

Originally Posted by Cugel

Guys it's simple. The ONLY reason to have Joe Flacco as your starting QB this year is if Elway is trying to win the division THIS year. Because Joe Flacco obviously is NOT your long term starting franchise QB, he's your "win now" QB.

Nobody can think Flacco is the long term answer because he isn't. They drafted Drew Lock because he is NOT the long term answer. But, Elway isn't looking for a long-term QB who they can rebuild with. He wants to win now!

But, they can't "win Now!" without Harris, so if he's going to trade Harris, what is Elway doing screwing around with Flacco and not starting Lock immediately?

Denver's entire season hinges on Harris? I don' think so and since the season hasn't even started, it a little over the top that the couldn't win. Lose your starting quarterback and that seems more likely, losing a starting corner back is seems a lot less likely.

Originally Posted by Shazam!

And I didn't even need seven paragraphs.

Most people don't. That aside, reading Cugel's long posts are easier than reading Joel's.