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Thread: Tom Nalen on Losing Matt Paradis and on Garrett Bolles' Play!

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    That's an excellent question! How do we know that the critics know more than Elway does about Broncos personnel decisions! Well, let's look at the record then!

    What personnel decisions has Elway made in the draft in the first 3 rounds?

    2014: rd 1: Bradley Roby, 2: Cody Latimer, 3: Michael Schofield. Roby is gone, the others are long gone.

    2015: 1st: Shane Ray; 2nd: Ty Sambrailo; 3rd: Jeff Heurman - Shane is gone, Sambrailo has been in Miami? for a couple years. Heurman just has been invisible.

    2016: Paxton Lynch, Adam Gotsis, Justin Simmons. Lynch was the Hindenburg, Gotsis is a starter, but nothing special,

    2017: Garrett Bolles; DeMarcus Walker; Carlos Henderson. Crap, invisible, gone-baby-gone. Not the impact you should be getting from this draft!

    But surely Elway did better in FA recently? Like in fixing the OL with players like Russell Okung, Donald Stephenson, Menelik Watson, and Ron Leary? No. Not really.

    Then he hired Vance Joseph and the team won 11 games and lost 25. That's a .300 winning percentage. Was it all Vance Joseph's fault? Well, he certainly sucked! He didn't help, no. But, Elway didn't give him any help either.

    So, now they have a new coaching staff, with no excuses. Vance looked like a high school freshman who unexpectedly suddenly gets a date with the Prom Queen and has no idea how to handle it. But, Elway? He hasn't covered himself in glory these last three years.
    I'll give you Schofield and Latimer did become starters but they were contributors and helped Denver win a Super Bowl and the same with Roby. Btw I would bet dollars to doughnuts that one reason Roby is gone in not because he a terrible player rather he's not going fit Fangio scheme. Roby's strength is press coverage and from my understanding about Fangio is that he likes to play zone coverage.He also was major contributor to Denver winning Super Bowl 50.

    Shane Ray was also major contributor his rookie season when Denver won the Super Bowl. He also played well the following season. I think there common thread there for Roby and Ray. They got play under Wade Philips in '15 and '16. Who was their defensive coordinator the last two year? Joe Woods. That's like going from a Mercedes Benz to a Yugo with no engine.

    Simmons is a also starter on defensive along with Gotsis. Not every player is going to be an all-pro. So the 2016 has two starters on the defense.

    Did you ever think that maybe 2017 class that you're complaining about had to play their first two years under an incompetent coaching staff?

    Elway did try to give Joseph help to say that he didn't is inaccurate.
    Last edited by TXBRONC; 03-18-2019 at 10:13 AM.


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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazoe60 View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXBRONC View Post
    I'll give you Schofield and Latimer did become starters but they were contributors and helped Denver win a Super Bowl and the same with Roby. Btw I would bet dollars to doughnuts that one reason Roby is gone in not because he a terrible player rather he's not going fit Fangio scheme. Roby's strength is press coverage and from my understanding about Fangio is that he likes to play zone coverage.He also was major contributor to Denver winning Super Bowl 50.

    Shane Ray was also major contributor his rookie season when Denver won the Super Bowl. He also played well the following season. I think there common thread there for Roby and Ray. They got play under Wade Philips in '15 and '16. Who was their defensive coordinator the last two year? Joe Woods. That's like going from a Mercedes Benz to a Yugo with no engine.

    Simmons is a also starter on defensive along with Gotsis. Not every player is going to be an all-pro. So the 2016 has two starters on the defense.

    Did you ever think that maybe 2017 class that you're complaining about had to play their first two years under an incompetent coaching staff?

    Elway did try to give Joseph help to say that he didn't is inaccurate.
    Are you trolling? Or are you serious in defending Elway's drafting?

    Because the UNIVERSAL, and I mean universal opinion of Elway's drafting over the past 5 years is that it's totally horrible.

    In the 2015 draft they had 9 draft picks, and only 1 of them - Jeff Heurman is still on the roster. And he's a career backup who's expected to be a backup again this year (to Jake Butt - IF Butt can stay healthy). That draft should be the core of your team. Nope.

    2014 - Not one pick is on the roster five years later. Most of them are out of football altogether.

    They are paying Jawan James more than any RT in NFL history because they failed to draft and develop Ty Sambrailo into a viable starter. They are paying Kareem Jackson $11m a year to play CB/S because of the failure to draft and develop DBs including Brenden Langley who decided that he no longer wants to be a CB, he wants to be a WR.

    Up till last year, the draft's just been a total horror show, if you pay attention to their depth chart and contract situation. And every single commenter on radio/tv or sports shows says the same thing.

  5. #49

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    The 2018 draft did get a lot better, with Chubb, Sutton, Freeman, Yiadom, G Sam Jones, and Jewell all expected to start or play significant minutes this year. Along with Phillip Lindsay it was a great draft. But, given how horrible the Broncos drafting has been previous five years they need about 3 more drafts like last year just to fill out the roster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    Are you trolling? Or are you serious in defending Elway's drafting?

    Because the UNIVERSAL, and I mean universal opinion of Elway's drafting over the past 5 years is that it's totally horrible.

    In the 2015 draft they had 9 draft picks, and only 1 of them - Jeff Heurman is still on the roster. And he's a career backup who's expected to be a backup again this year (to Jake Butt - IF Butt can stay healthy). That draft should be the core of your team. Nope.

    2014 - Not one pick is on the roster five years later. Most of them are out of football altogether.

    They are paying Jawan James more than any RT in NFL history because they failed to draft and develop Ty Sambrailo into a viable starter. They are paying Kareem Jackson $11m a year to play CB/S because of the failure to draft and develop DBs including Brenden Langley who decided that he no longer wants to be a CB, he wants to be a WR.

    Up till last year, the draft's just been a total horror show, if you pay attention to their depth chart and contract situation. And every single commenter on radio/tv or sports shows says the same thing.
    No, I'm not trolling you. I was pointing out some facts about Elway's drafts that you didn't mention.

    Cug, I really don't care what the media thinks. Their opinions don't win or lose games.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TXBRONC View Post
    No, I'm not trolling you. I was pointing out some facts about Elway's drafts that you didn't mention.

    Cug, I really don't care what the media thinks. Their opinions don't win or lose games.
    That's true. Vance Joseph and team managed to lose 21 out of 32 games the last two years, without help from the media.

    That wasn't just because VJ was a terrible coach. Barry Switzer wasn't a great NFL coach but he managed to win a SB with Jimmy Johnson's great Dallas players.

    The Broncos suck because they don't have a lot of talent on the roster. That's because Elway drafted guys like Carlos Henderson and Paxton Lynch and got zero value out of them. The lack of talent on the roster at key positions is directly due to Elway sucking at drafting.

    Hopefully, he's learned his lesson and is now prepared to get some decent players this April. They really need them. They can't continue to rely on high priced FAs at most positions.

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  9. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    That's true. Vance Joseph and team managed to lose 21 out of 32 games the last two years, without help from the media.

    That wasn't just because VJ was a terrible coach. Barry Switzer wasn't a great NFL coach but he managed to win a SB with Jimmy Johnson's great Dallas players.

    The Broncos suck because they don't have a lot of talent on the roster. That's because Elway drafted guys like Carlos Henderson and Paxton Lynch and got zero value out of them. The lack of talent on the roster at key positions is directly due to Elway sucking at drafting.

    Hopefully, he's learned his lesson and is now prepared to get some decent players this April. They really need them. They can't continue to rely on high priced FAs at most positions.
    I disagree, I think there is quite a high bit of talent on the team the most glaring weakness is a competent starting quarterback. Cug,they're not mostly free agents to fill out most positions. On offense the person who will starting in the backfield that wasn't drafted by Denver will be Flacco. The wide receivers and tight ends were and expect will remain mostly draft picks and UDFAs. One the offensive line it could be many three FA depending how it's addressed in the draft.

    On defense there are only three guys who were FAs who will be starting Peko, Callahan, and Jackson and you could add Todd Davis was claimed off of waivers his rookie season but that was five years ago. He probably won't be starting might not even be on the team if Denver drafts White or Bush. That would mean 7 out of 11 starters would be home grown.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jsteve01 View Post
    It actually does deserve that much criticism. Before we get all defensive and don't like guys like stink and nails criticizing roster moves. Last year Matt graded out at 79.9 and Connor graded out at a 58.3. Now we can talk about whether or not we like the way that PFF grades people but that difference is substantial enough to say yes there is a huge drop off between the two
    Here’s my problem with PFF, there’s how many players on the field at a time? 22, and how many plays a game? 150 +/-, and how many teams in a game? 2, and how many games in a day? 16. And who is doing the “grading”? Do these people actually know every players responsibility?

    I’ve heard many actual players make the same argument.

    You’re tellling me they grade that many players and publish grades by the next morning? I’m not buying it, I never did.

    Btw, I don’t need PFF tell me when Paradis gets his scrawny ass trucked into the ball carrier. The OL has sucked his entire tenure, he’s the leader of a shit OL. The OL played better without him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jsteve01 View Post
    It actually does deserve that much criticism. Before we get all defensive and don't like guys like stink and nails criticizing roster moves. Last year Matt graded out at 79.9 and Connor graded out at a 58.3. Now we can talk about whether or not we like the way that PFF grades people but that difference is substantial enough to say yes there is a huge drop off between the two
    If McGovern is our starting center then I'm with you... But I don't think he will be. My contention isn't that McGovern is good - just that Paradis can be replaced and that $9 million can be re-purposed elsewhere.

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    McGovern has only started a handful of games at C, he can get better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Here’s my problem with PFF, there’s how many players on the field at a time? 22, and how many plays a game? 150 +/-, and how many teams in a game? 2, and how many games in a day? 16. And who is doing the “grading”? Do these people actually know every players responsibility?

    I’ve heard many actual players make the same argument.

    You’re tellling me they grade that many players and publish grades by the next morning? I’m not buying it, I never did.

    Btw, I don’t need PFF tell me when Paradis gets his scrawny ass trucked into the ball carrier. The OL has sucked his entire tenure, he’s the leader of a shit OL. The OL played better without him.

    I disagree with your take on PFF, nothing is foolproof but they do have a big film staff, and a number of coaches in the past have stated its been a great tool for their own evaluation of players. They look at what they see on their own tape nd use PFF as a guide. For me I consider PFF a guide...its not fool proof, but its a good indicator of a players overall performance or where they truly lack. A player may be good at run blocking, but suck at pass protection. The end result is a avg. player by PFF metrics. They have been pretty even on their evaluations the last few years.

    As for Paradis his strength was always his OL leadership, line calls and intelligence. You aren't wrong in saying he got blown up quite a bit inside at times on run downs......
    Please give me either Lock, or Thorson at QB in the upcoming draft....lets Get it!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    If McGovern is our starting center then I'm with you... But I don't think he will be. My contention isn't that McGovern is good - just that Paradis can be replaced and that $9 million can be re-purposed elsewhere.
    I'm fine with that. But there's a reason that he got the money that he did in the NFL. Because the general consensus is that Paradis is a very quality starting center. As long as McGovern isn't starting at Center and he's our guard, I'm cool with that.

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