Thread: Legendary Quarterback John Elway Can’t Figure Out Quarterbacks

This from the website of statistical guru 538.com. Not super newsworthy but this is the slow season where there's not a lot of Broncos News so interesting the National take on the Broncos and Elway:

Legendary Quarterback John Elway Can’t Figure Out Quarterbacks

When the Broncos open the 2019 season, Joe Flacco is expected to be the fifth player to get a crack at the position since the 2015 campaign that culminated in a Super Bowl victory. Flacco’s signing came as a shock to Case Keenum, the team’s starting quarterback last year. But it should hardly have been a surprise given that, in Elway’s eight years in charge of the team’s roster, he has already cycled through seven different starting QBs.1 Flacco hardly seems a long-term answer entering his age-34 season — or an answer at all given that he’s 39th out of 42 qualifying starters in yards per pass attempt over the past three seasons, according to ESPN’s Stats & Information Group.

The Broncos are 29th out of the 32 teams in Total Quarterback Rating2 since the start of the 2016 season. And the teams behind them — the Jets, Cardinals and Browns — drafted quarterbacks in 2018 with top-10 picks.

The whole thing is worth a read. I don't subscribe to all of it, but this point is true:

One of Elway’s problems is that even without Manning, the Broncos have not been bad enough to be in position to draft a top quarterback. This year, they’re slated to pick 10th — behind both the Giants and Jaguars. But with a 20-28 record over the past three seasons, they’re not overcoming bad QB play, either.

I saw that article today and it made me sad.

I saw it earlier and thought it was kind of stupid.

He hasn't been able to find a franchise quarterback in the last 4 years? BFD. If they were that easy to find every team would have one.

It IS surprising that Denver hasnt been just mediocre at QB... its been a train wreck. But this was the price post-Manning. I knew it was going to be bad... but not this dreadful

Originally Posted by slim

I saw it earlier and thought it was kind of stupid.

He hasn't been able to find a franchise quarterback in the last 4 years? BFD. If they were that easy to find every team would have one.

I think the biggest difference is not every other team has had a HoF QB/GM go through 5 different QB's in 4 years with zero success.

Well the news out of Elway's interview today at the Combine is that they haven't decided whether to keep Case Keenum or not. They are talking to Case's agent about re-doing his contract to lower the price. If he's willing to accept backup money, he could stick around for several years as the Broncos backup - to Joe Flacco.

Let me just say, I don't want Keenum around at all. But, Elway has made his choice. Flacco gives them the best chance to win now. And that's all he's about.

There's seemingly no planning for the future. What I think this means is that the Broncos will not select a Qb in the draft. I hope I'm wrong.

But, it doesn't look like he likes any of the 1st round QBs this year. And anyway, drafting a qb wouldn't help him to "win now."

I don't know. But, this doesn't look good to me. I don't see any use in keeping Keenum on the roster.

Originally Posted by slim

I saw it earlier and thought it was kind of stupid.

He hasn't been able to find a franchise quarterback in the last 4 years? BFD. If they were that easy to find every team would have one.

So, you're obviously cool with complete mediocrity? I'm cool with it if it would be what is sold at the gates. 'We are the same as every other team but we'll make you think we've got something going on enough to buy our crap and cheer....until we lose again. Then, we'll come up with some nonsense about how hard it is to find this or that and you'll buy it because that's what everyone else is saying. But it's still fun to watch people smash heads and lob a prayer pass, so...buy Broncos stuff'.

That is at least honest.

I'm not saying that Elway can't pull it together. Just saying that if we are to care, defending failure as the measure of success is not the best way to justify said care. We love the Broncos because we love the game and have no choice. Thus, Elway still has a job. That and the ruthless manipulation of a guy with Alzheimer's legacy by those that were left in trust of that legacy.

If only there were such a thing as competition in the NFL and we had more than one team to choose from in aalllllllll of Colorado. Then maybe we wouldn't have to defend Elway's failures year after year. I do believe we are among the worst teams in dead cap money (5th worst), right? We were last in spending on offense in 2018. BFD, right? That is probable the very definition of mediocrity: BFD.

Elway is a business man first and he hasn't been bad at it...but that's only considering that he has no competition. And is guaranteed filled seats, so he can adventure all he likes. As long as the trustees think his name garners more profit than wins, right? Anyway, take care. I think you hit the nail on the head when you say: Broncos? BFD.

This illustrates two things, 1) how hard it is to find a franchise QB, and B) how arrogant Kubiak is when it comes to “his guys”.

Paul Klee put it best before ‘18 season ever started, the Broncos are arrogant thinking they can win with scrubs at QB. Hopefully those days are soon to be over, I like the Flacco trade on a number of levels but he’s not the prize they need and they can’t keep kicking the can.

When Hall-of-Famer Ted Williams was made manager of the Washington Senators, everyone thought he could teach this perennial loser how to hit better. It didn't happen and Williams eventually quit in frustration. One of the players said of him, "He never could understand why the rest of us couldn't hit the way he did." Maybe JFE can't understand why today's quarterbacks can't play the way he did.

Elway will figure it out eventually. I have faith. He loves the Broncos, probably more than any of us, and only wants the best.

John Elway replaced Pro Keesum after one season when everyone just took it for granted that he’d be the ‘19 starter, he’ll do the same if Flacco fails, so one thing we do know is that he has higher standards than the average fan.

He’s the Executive of the Year for getting a pick for Keesum.

Originally Posted by Jaded

John Elway replaced Pro Keesum after one season when everyone just took it for granted that he’d be the ‘19 starter, he’ll do the same if Flacco fails, so one thing we do know is that he has higher standards than the average fan.

HeÂ’s the Executive of the Year for getting a pick for Keesum.

Everyone took it for granted because the FA options were mediocre at best (Flacco), or had similarly out sized performances as Keenum did that warranted extreme examination (Foles). Examination that Elway could have spent on Keenum before matching him with the clowns that he put in place as HC/ OC/ DC last year.

To say he'll drop Flacco like he did Keenum and calling that high standards is nuts, man. He's the idiot that hired these clowns, so where was his high standards when he paid them millions of dollars to control the destiny of the Broncos? Executive of the year for ******* up by giving Keenum the keys to the franchise and getting $500 for selling a 20 mil piece of crap?

Elway has done a good job in some areas. He's completely f'ed some drafts. He did great in the draft last year, IMO. I love his coaching moves and I see those as much better examples of what you are trying to say. He saw he completely screwed up in coaching choices and made better choices this year.

But QBs? There is no rationalizing his f'ups since Manning. Saying one pile of shit is better than the last and saying selling that pile of shit for a can of maybe at best makes him a genius is crazy. Elway rightfully own the SB he brought us but that was a miracle year of crazy stuff happening and good coaching. Still, he owns it and it was fun to watch. But QB makes it happen and he has sucked hard since Manning there.

We should wait a couple more years to judge. He's shown he knows how much he's sucked elsewhere and made changes. Flacco is a clown but if he's a bridge, than fine. Keenum would have been an equal bridge and neither could win us a ring this year but fine. Elway need a home run in the draft this year or next. If he gives us something to chew on, then he might deserve another couple of years.

If not, let's all please hope that the ownership struggle ends up where it should (in Bowlen hands) and quickly. Elway may feel fan pressure and his own but ACTUAL pressure means the threat of losing your job. He can't feel that until the good ol boys get ousted and reality comes crashing in.

Elway has been good and bad as a GM. The NFL is the not for long league, right? Why does that not apply to GMs as well as players?

Originally Posted by Ground Control

Originally Posted by Jaded

John Elway replaced Pro Keesum after one season when everyone just took it for granted that he’d be the ‘19 starter, he’ll do the same if Flacco fails, so one thing we do know is that he has higher standards than the average fan.

HeÂ’s the Executive of the Year for getting a pick for Keesum.

Everyone took it for granted because the FA options were mediocre at best (Flacco), or had similarly out sized performances as Keenum did that warranted extreme examination (Foles). Examination that Elway could have spent on Keenum before matching him with the clowns that he put in place as HC/ OC/ DC last year.

To say he'll drop Flacco like he did Keenum and calling that high standards is nuts, man. He's the idiot that hired these clowns, so where was his high standards when he paid them millions of dollars to control the destiny of the Broncos? Executive of the year for ******* up by giving Keenum the keys to the franchise and getting $500 for selling a 20 mil piece of crap?

Elway has done a good job in some areas. He's completely f'ed some drafts. He did great in the draft last year, IMO. I love his coaching moves and I see those as much better examples of what you are trying to say. He saw he completely screwed up in coaching choices and made better choices this year.

But QBs? There is no rationalizing his f'ups since Manning. Saying one pile of shit is better than the last and saying selling that pile of shit for a can of maybe at best makes him a genius is crazy. Elway rightfully own the SB he brought us but that was a miracle year of crazy stuff happening and good coaching. Still, he owns it and it was fun to watch. But QB makes it happen and he has sucked hard since Manning there.

We should wait a couple more years to judge. He's shown he knows how much he's sucked elsewhere and made changes. Flacco is a clown but if he's a bridge, than fine. Keenum would have been an equal bridge and neither could win us a ring this year but fine. Elway need a home run in the draft this year or next. If he gives us something to chew on, then he might deserve another couple of years.

If not, let's all please hope that the ownership struggle ends up where it should (in Bowlen hands) and quickly. Elway may feel fan pressure and his own but ACTUAL pressure means the threat of losing your job. He can't feel that until the good ol boys get ousted and reality comes crashing in.

Elway has been good and bad as a GM. The NFL is the not for long league, right? Why does that not apply to GMs as well as players?

For whatever the reason blowing it on Osweiler was his major **** up because

A - He was *supposed to replace PFM

B - Blew the pick because even after watching PM for years and winning it all he wasn't a real Q1

C - His first option he let walk out the door. THEN, picking up Sanchez made total sense as a backup to Oz as the projected Starter. I get why because Elway knew he wasnt worth the money.

I know... I know... but dont forget Simien.

He wasnt dreadful as he is perceived with GK in 2016.

2017 and onward he was the victim of a terrible HC, a garbage time OC and an OL that was a shit show (Watson, another blown Elway move) from the first play in preseason in 2017.

There is no gauge for how bad VJ was or how far he dragged this team down but there should be. Hes is the worst Coach ive ever watched probably since Rich Kotite w/NYJ.

I blame him for most of it.

I’ve said the same thing. His only major screw up picking and staying so long with Oz. The rest happens when you are chasing instead of directing. I ‘d love to see the people who are so angry about the down years tell us how to do it better.

I’m sure Elway knows a cant miss and a really good prospect. As most do but many screw this up. Finding one in the majority of ok prospects is winning lottery hard. There are 10 or less high quality QB’s the world. It ain’t easy no matter if you were one or not.

Originally Posted by Shazam!

For whatever the reason blowing it on Osweiler was his major **** up because

A - He was *supposed to replace PFM

B - Blew the pick because even after watching PM for years and winning it all he wasn't a real Q1

C - His first option he let walk out the door. THEN, picking up Sanchez made total sense as a backup to Oz as the projected Starter. I get why because Elway knew he wasnt worth the money.

I know... I know... but dont forget Simien.

He wasnt dreadful as he is perceived with GK in 2016.

2017 and onward he was the victim of a terrible HC, a garbage time OC and an OL that was a shit show (Watson, another blown Elway move) from the first play in preseason in 2017.

There is no gauge for how bad VJ was or how far he dragged this team down but there should be. Hes is the worst Coach ive ever watched probably since Rich Kotite w/NYJ.

I blame him for most of it.

Me too on VJ, but JE hired him. I'm fine with pretty much all Elway has done and he deserves much respect. I'm even OK with the disaster that was the 2017 draft and others. He just reeeeaaaly has sucked at the important parts, like QB and HC outside of Kubes at the tail end of him being relevant..and PFM. Otherwise, I totally agree. Actually, I completely agree, no oherwise about it. And I did loves me some Seimian. His first year was great and I found myself defending him often. But his second year showed what he was really made of. It was VJs fault and maybe he and BO would be different leaders, if VJ wasn't such a DB. But we live in the world we live in and Seimian was that deer you feel bad about killing because he panicked and froze when death came at him. Elway saved tons of money on QB that year. He saved tons of money on offense the next. Elway is pretty damn good at making money for the owners and bonuses for himself and the executive staff. All good with that but I'm against anyone saying Elway is all in until he and the Brocos are actually all in. Few folks bring that up but it's the underlying factor.

Well said, sir.