Thread: Interview: Mark Schlereth Sounds Off On The Flacco Hiring!

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Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27

The best part of the whole situation is that Flacco needs a beefed up line, more weapons and the right coach. Didn't CK prove that he can be solid with those same things while in Minny?

I'm on record saying the deal is meaningless ling term. And I'm standing pat. But why didn't we just keep CK and do the things to help him that we still need to do to make Flacco successful?

Because unlike Keenum, Flacco can chuck it down the field. Even when case was playing good, you take his running game away, he becomes pedestrian. He has no deep ball AT ALL. So no one has any reason to respect his ability to throw down field. That leads to stacked boxes that take the run game away.

Even if Flacco and Keenum are very similar marginal QB's, the deep ball puts him head and shoulders above because it keeps the defense honest in the running game.

Originally Posted by Freyaka

Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27

The best part of the whole situation is that Flacco needs a beefed up line, more weapons and the right coach. Didn't CK prove that he can be solid with those same things while in Minny?

I'm on record saying the deal is meaningless ling term. And I'm standing pat. But why didn't we just keep CK and do the things to help him that we still need to do to make Flacco successful?

Because unlike Keenum, Flacco can chuck it down the field. Even when case was playing good, you take his running game away, he becomes pedestrian. He has no deep ball AT ALL. So no one has any reason to respect his ability to throw down field. That leads to stacked boxes that take the run game away.

Even if Flacco and Keenum are very similar marginal QB's, the deep ball puts him head and shoulders above because it keeps the defense honest in the running game.

Im actually very surprised this move was not as well received.

I want the young Franchise QB too but now Denver can instantly improve the Offense there should be no question he is a better QB on resume alone. No one ever questioned Flaccos arm strength either. Arguably he has plenty of weapons to work with but he always had good TE production that Scang will def have to find a way. The need at TE just got bigger.

Originally Posted by Joel

With you on the last part, and I'll further note that the year Flacco won his SB he had Kubiak as his OC; he was nothing special before that and has been nothing special since (he just preserved Kubiaks streak of getting every single one of his starting QBs to a Pro Bowl.) I DEFINITELY share you expectation Munchak will dramatically improve the line (though the lines he played on were the ones that taught me the value of a LT preventing pass rushers blindsiding Warren Moon so he can try to chase down yet another fumble; love how Bud Adams kept demanding his team that rarely even TRIED to run draft nothing but run blockers to protect his QBs, but Oliver Luck and Archie Manning probably loved it even more.)

That said, I don't think slightly above average pass blocking will cut it in this league; we can point to Mannings age, but has Tom Brady limped his way through the bulk of his last 4-5 seasons? NO, because everyone knows an immobile precision passer like Manning and Brady needs all the protection he can get to simply stay vertical, let alone win games, much less championships. Quick reads and releases can and usually do mitigate poor protection, but not eliminate it.

Kubiak wasn't the OC for that SB.

Originally Posted by King87

Objective stats over subjective evaluations. Especially when that’s all you can cling to. Objective stats over anecdotal evidence. Denver’s line wasn’t awful last year. Especially considering the injuries and QB behind it.

Eh. The wise man knows what the measure means, and what it doesn't mean. Not saying either of you is right.

If Schlereth wants to dispute an objective measure, he needs to explain what it does and doesn't measure and why that matters. Users of objective measures should be clear on exactly what is measured, and how accurately.

You know in general I roll with the data...but some anecdotes matter, and some subjective measures matter.

I know this comes across in general as a rebuttal or refutation, and that's not what I mean. I agree with you, just want to add some color to the picture you outlined.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

Eh. The wise man knows what the measure means, and what it doesn't mean. Not saying either of you is right.

If Schlereth wants to dispute an objective measure, he needs to explain what it does and doesn't measure and why that matters. Users of objective measures should be clear on exactly what is measured, and how accurately.

You know in general I roll with the data...but some anecdotes matter, and some subjective measures matter.

I know this comes across in general as a rebuttal or refutation, and that's not what I mean. I agree with you, just want to add some color to the picture you outlined.

The data universally showed that Denver was a good line until a bunch of injuries occurred. After those injuries, the line was still above average regarding run blocking, and that's with a limited QB with a boy's arm. We routinely watched Keenum fail to step up in pockets when he had time, as well as take bad sacks in general. Which hurts the lines stats, and his mobility, his vaunted ability to play under pressure (that was sold to us in the past offseason) was no more. In other words, the line had a lot going against it.

Stats are contextual - but blindly feeding into narratives because they used to be true and just citing one guy because he agrees with you isn't sharp. I don't take what you're saying as a refutation - I'm just tired of this stupid narrative that it's all on the line. Crazy how PFM had a bunch of lackluster lines yet they were ranked highly. Okay, a bit too high a bar? Well, Big Ben had plenty of good years with bad pass blocking lines. OKay, too high a standard? Well Watson was a second year player coming off an ACL and had one of the worst lines. OKay, too high a standard? What about immobile Rivers having a lot of nice years in that train wreck in SD regarding skill player injuries and offensive line?

It used to be that fans who touted offensive line were savvy and sophisticated. It's now so common and so abused that it's now a shibboleth.

Anecdotally, I thought we got better after the injuries

Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis

Anecdotally, I thought we got better after the injuries

Me too.

Anecdotally.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

Good question. Maybe it has do with Flacco having better physical tools and a better resume.

Also, CK has one year as outlier, and the Vikings sent him packing one year. Flacco, has quarterbacked his team the playoffs on multiple occasions fwiw.

That's basically why Elway did this trade. They were never that happy with the "Case Keesum" acquisition. They were really interested in getting Kirk Cousins, but he wasn't interested - wanting to go to a playoff team.

This year they are all in at Dove Valley on Flacco. They really think they can compete for the division with Flacco and some upgrades. I don't know about that, but that's the line they are peddling at Dove Valley.

Originally Posted by Shazam!

Broncos got Munchak to fix the OLine issues.

Better Coach? Check.

Better OLine play, even marginally improved would be great? Ok i can buy that. Check.

Can Denver run the ball? Check.

Upgrade the Secondary and LBer via FA and Draft? I can buy that. Check.

Better WRs than in Baltimore for Flacco? Likely. Check.

QB thats not afraid to throw the ball? Check. Even marginally he is a better passer than Case.

Can this team win more than 8 games and return.to playoff contention? Thats all they have to do. I think they can. I am liking the moves.

Elway wants to win now with Von while he still can. I am happy they are doing everything possivle to get better on OLine amd improve the QB position. Im getting veru excited about the Draft FA and next year.

Broncos will be vastly improved next year IMO

That’s alot of IFs, hopes and dreams

Originally Posted by DenBronx

Originally Posted by Shazam!

Broncos got Munchak to fix the OLine issues.

Better Coach? Check.

Better OLine play, even marginally improved would be great? Ok i can buy that. Check.

Can Denver run the ball? Check.

Upgrade the Secondary and LBer via FA and Draft? I can buy that. Check.

Better WRs than in Baltimore for Flacco? Likely. Check.

QB thats not afraid to throw the ball? Check. Even marginally he is a better passer than Case.

Can this team win more than 8 games and return.to playoff contention? Thats all they have to do. I think they can. I am liking the moves.

Elway wants to win now with Von while he still can. I am happy they are doing everything possivle to get better on OLine amd improve the QB position. Im getting veru excited about the Draft FA and next year.

Broncos will be vastly improved next year IMO

That’s alot of IFs, hopes and dreams

I can def see it. It IS possible.

Originally Posted by Freyaka

Because unlike Keenum, Flacco can chuck it down the field. Even when case was playing good, you take his running game away, he becomes pedestrian. He has no deep ball AT ALL. So no one has any reason to respect his ability to throw down field. That leads to stacked boxes that take the run game away.

Even if Flacco and Keenum are very similar marginal QB's, the deep ball puts him head and shoulders above because it keeps the defense honest in the running game.

Again...that's the point. Flacco still needs the line to have time to throw the ball down field. CK needed the line and coaching to put him in successful situations. Same with Flacco.

The line played out of their minds last year. And somehow we just assume that adding Munchak makes them even better. I like Munchak but lets not forget that his line in Pitt was a lot better than ours with or without him. I still don't get why when anybody objectively would say that our coaching staff last year maxed out the potential of that group of nobody's that somehow adding a guy who yes has been a very good offensive line coach makes them even better. The ceiling for that group is low.

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

The line played out of their minds last year. And somehow we just assume that adding Munchak makes them even better. I like Munchak but lets not forget that his line in Pitt was a lot better than ours with or without him. I still don't get why when anybody objectively would say that our coaching staff last year maxed out the potential of that group of nobody's that somehow adding a guy who yes has been a very good offensive line coach makes them even better. The ceiling for that group is low.

They gave up 40 sacks the season before he got there. In the 5 years that he was there, they average 23 sacks allowed. He's known as the best in the business. I can't wait to see if he can turn Garrett Bolles around.

Originally Posted by Cugel

That's basically why Elway did this trade. They were never that happy with the "Case Keesum" acquisition. They were really interested in getting Kirk Cousins, but he wasn't interested - wanting to go to a playoff team.

This year they are all in at Dove Valley on Flacco. They really think they can compete for the division with Flacco and some upgrades. I don't know about that, but that's the line they are peddling at Dove Valley.

No, Cousins was willing to Denver for less money and the deal would have included Shanahan as head coach but Ellis nixed it. This was brought up a few months ago.

All in on Flacco? Hardly, there is absolutely nothing I can find that would indicate they all in. Denver it taking his contract which includes no guaranteed money, and they let him go at any time with no cap hit. That's hardly being all in my friend.