Thread: At What Point Is This Elway's Fault?

Originally Posted by Tned

Yea, because records, championships, and the like doesn't matter. It's all about who wins drafts.

Exactly, now you get it.

Good boy.

"The reason they didn't draft a QB in 2018 was NOT because Elway believed that Case Keenum could be the long term answer at QB! I admit I was wrong to think that he might be capable of being the long term answer. He quickly proved me wrong. BTW: Keenum's performance this year is statistically almost exactly what it was in MN. Only the Broncos don't have guys like Kyle Rudolph, Stephon Diggs or Adam Thielen so instead of 13-3, they are 6-7 going on 8-8 or 7-9.

Lots of other fans were guilty of drinking the Keenum cool-aid too. But, Elway NEVER was. When he signed Keenum called him "a bridge QB." But, a bridge to what?

As it turned out, Elway's plan was "a bridge to Paxton Lynch" whom he idiotically refused to admit was trash Every single fan, sportswriter, NFL GM, casual observer could see in April 2018 that Paxton was trash, and would always be trash. There was no point in planning around him.

After Paxton inevitably flamed out, they just went to Chad Kelly. Who also dropped out of the league like a stone due to congenital stupidity leaving them with "a bridge to nowhere."

See, if they drafted a developmental QB, then that guy would compete with Paxton, and they'd have to "kick Paxton to the curb." Obviously so, since Paxton could never out-compete anybody, not even Trevor Siemian.

So, because of Elway's stupidity, they were stuck without a long term plan at QB. They just wasted another year of Von Miller and Chris Harris and Derek Wolfe's careers."

This part of my critique turned out to be just flat wrong.

Elway wanted to fire Vance, hire Shanahan and then use Shanny to help land Kirk Cousins. That was a plan that could work. Cousins played great under Shanny, so much so that he was able to land a $28m/year FA contract. Whether or how much of a "discount" he would have taken is questionable.

But, that Shanahan would have been a better choice than Vance Joseph to coach this team? Do any of you doubt that? Seriously?

Sure, they should have hired Kyle Shanahan, but in January 2018 that option no longer existed. What should they have done then? Fired VJ. Who wanted to do that? Elway. Who forbade them hiring Shanny? Joe Ellis.

So, Ellis is the villain who stuck us with Vance for another season.

Originally Posted by Jaded

Gruden has had one draft and it sucked but so far the Raiders are still in the lead.

What?

Originally Posted by Cugel

This part of my critique turned out to be just flat wrong.

Elway wanted to fire Vance, hire Shanahan and then use Shanny to help land Kirk Cousins. That was a plan that could work. Cousins played great under Shanny, so much so that he was able to land a $28m/year FA contract. Whether or how much of a "discount" he would have taken is questionable.

But, that Shanahan would have been a better choice than Vance Joseph to coach this team? Do any of you doubt that? Seriously?

Sure, they should have hired Kyle Shanahan, but in January 2018 that option no longer existed. What should they have done then? Fired VJ. Who wanted to do that? Elway. Who forbade them hiring Shanny? Joe Ellis.

So, Ellis is the villain who stuck us with Vance for another season.

According to Les Shapiro, Cousins would have taken somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 to 5 mil a year less to come here and play for Shanahan. So instead of paying Keenum 18m a year, we could have had Cousins for 23 or 24 a year. Seems like a number we could have managed.

Time to start sending Ellis hate mail. Anyone have his cell? Maybe a billboard or two...

Yup, I owe Elway some apologies. Imma POS.

Originally Posted by Jaded

Yup, I owe Elway some apologies. Imma POS.

Yes you owe Elway an apology. As far as being a pos? No you're just one jaded sob.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

Yes you owe Elway an apology. As far as being a pos? No you're just one jaded sob.

Jaded AF

Yeah, this whole Joe Ellis B.S. has really made me re-evaluate my criticism of Elway. He still hired VJ instead of Kyle Shanahan, and he still drafted Paxton Lynch, but you can't really blame him for what happened this season.

Joe Ellis blocked his plan. There's now no doubt that Kirk Cousins would be vastly superior to Case Keenum. Cousins has a 99 QBR, 26 TDs 10 Ints. That's good. Keenum an 82 QBR, 15 TDs, 12 Ints. That's bad. Night and day.

We would have won at least 3 more games so far this year with Shanahan and Cousins - all games they were favored to win but inexplicably lost to crap teams: Jets, 49ers Browns. They MIGHT have managed to beat KC at home, who knows? 9-5 and you're in the hunt for a wild-card. 6-8 and you are making plans to go to Aruba for vacation in January.

I'm going on and on about this, I know, but damn, it's so frustrating that Ellis screwed this up so bad because he doesn't like Shanahan and doesn't want him in the building. Shanahan wouldn't even be reporting to Ellis anyway. He'd be reporting to Elway. If Elway could bury his grievances against Shanahan (for not taking Elway on as any kind of front office guy during the 2000s after Elway's retirement reportedly) then Ellis should be able to manage. Shanahan believed that Ellis wanted him gone back in 2008 and convinced Bowlen to fire him, but that's Shanahan's grievance against Ellis. What was Ellis' beef about Shanahan? Nothing that makes any sense.

The board went from "Cousins sucks and is overrated," to "he would have been our savior."

It's possible to not want VJ and not want Shanahan. I'm glad we didn't take a retread back.

Originally Posted by King87

The board went from "Cousins sucks and is overrated," to "he would have been our savior."

It's possible to not want VJ and not want Shanahan. I'm glad we didn't take a retread back.

No, that is not accurate my friend. Most people thought Cousins was the better option, and they also believed he was out of Denver's price range.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

No, that is not accurate my friend. Most people thought Cousins was the better option, and they also believed he was out of Denver's price range.

Not here. People wanted him until the rumors of his cost surfaced and then it was a total change. The second we couldn't afford him it was "he's overrated," "who has he beaten," "Keenum is grittier," and all that spin. You ever seen people on here now bash the guy.

Originally Posted by King87

Not here. People wanted him until the rumors of his cost surfaced and then it was a total change. The second we couldn't afford him it was "he's overrated," "who has he beaten," "Keenum is grittier," and all that spin. You ever seen people on here now bash the guy.

You’re suggesting you’re the only person who wanted Cousins? Could it be some were just trying to see the silver lining in the cloud when we missed out on Cousins?

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

You’re suggesting you’re the only person who wanted Cousins? Could it be some were just trying to see the silver lining in the cloud when we missed out on Cousins?

Cousins would have been awesome. But, not at $84M guaranteed.

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

You’re suggesting you’re the only person who wanted Cousins? Could it be some were just trying to see the silver lining in the cloud when we missed out on Cousins?

It was like 50 vs. 5.

They etched their damned positions into the walls, Al.

Don't you go trying to soften the past!

Originally Posted by King87

It was like 50 vs. 5.

They etched their damned positions into the walls, Al.

Don't you go trying to soften the past!

I like cheeseburgers.