Thread: At What Point Is This Elway's Fault?

Originally Posted by King87

The Raiders broke the bank on the offensive line, which is what a lot of people wanted us to do.

It's just hard, man.

I’d take their OL over Denver’s, LG-C-RG, boom! Keep Bolles and sign Trent Brown, Championship.

Denver's Olne is not that bad really. They havent been consistent but the bigger problem has been at QB.

Originally Posted by Northman

Denver's Olne is not that bad really. They havent been consistent but the bigger problem has been at QB.

Keenum has caused a lot of his sacks and QB hits. FWIW, Bolles had a solid game tonight.

PFM would make this line look like a bunch of all pros.

Originally Posted by Jaded

The Raiders got a franchise/cornerstone QB and pass rusher in one draft, I still contend that’s better than anything Elway has done in the draft.

I’d hire McKenzie yesterday if I had the chance.

This is what I mean. Seriously, the grass isn't greener in Oakland.

Even with all the money on the offensive line and the franchise QB, etc., the Raiders have ONE winning season in the last 16 years, including this one and since Broncos fans declared them the example the Broncos should be following (after their ONE winning season in 14 years), they went 6-10 and are currently sitting at 3-10, so likely will only finish with 4 or 5 wins this year.

Originally Posted by Northman

Denver's Olne is not that bad really. They havent been consistent but the bigger problem has been at QB.

I'd say it's a mixed bag. I think they are better with this make shift line than the one they had to start the year. They simply aren't a line that is going to give a QB 3-4 second pockets consistently.

Look at teams we face week in and week out that completely stop Miller and Chubb all game but for a few times they slip through, but when we play almost anyone, on about half the plays our OL seem to do no more than slightly slow down the pass rush, forcing the QB to move up or out of the pocket.

I know the Raiders record, I also know that they’re better at drafting then the Broncos.

Originally Posted by Northman

Denver's Olne is not that bad really. They havent been consistent but the bigger problem has been at QB.

The line isn’t the problem this year and it hasn’t been the problem the last two.

My guess is that until the Ownership issue gets resolved, Elway gets a pass from a Stand-in Owner; Joe Ellis. So whatever they are doing now continues-- like it or not.

Originally Posted by Tned

Just two years ago, there were many on here criticizing Elway and pointing to the Raiders as a model of a rebuild that Elway should be following.

How's that Raiders' rebuild looking now?

How many SB wins or appearances or AFCCG appearances for all of the AFC west vs Broncos during Elway's tenure?

No doubt the failure to get a long term answer at QB is hurting Broncos, but the fact is that I would bet that Elway is in fairly rarified air in terms of success to start a career as a GM.

I wouldn't trade Elway for Chucky, but the situations are not remotely comparable. The Raiders already flipped their fans off completely. They are going to Vegas and abandoning them. Hence they do not care a fig what the fans think and whether they come out to watch the Raiders between now and then. They are committed to dumping their entire fan base in Oakland.

So, they can do things like dump salary and their best players like Kalil Mack and Amari Cooper for draft picks that might pan out 2 years from now.

We won't know whether any of it will work out for the Raiders for several years now, but they are dumping NOW for next year and particularly the year after that - when they will be starting in Vegas. If their draft picks turn into players like Mack and Cooper, then fine. IF not, then not so fine.

But, we can't compare Denver to them.

Originally Posted by Cugel

I wouldn't trade Elway for Chucky, but the situations are not remotely comparable. The Raiders already flipped their fans off completely. They are going to Vegas and abandoning them. Hence they do not care a fig what the fans think and whether they come out to watch the Raiders between now and then. They are committed to dumping their entire fan base in Oakland.

So, they can do things like dump salary and their best players like Kalil Mack and Amari Cooper for draft picks that might pan out 2 years from now.

We won't know whether any of it will work out for the Raiders for several years now, but they are dumping NOW for next year and particularly the year after that - when they will be starting in Vegas. If their draft picks turn into players like Mack and Cooper, then fine. IF not, then not so fine.

But, we can't compare Denver to them.

Flipping their fans off, as you put it, has nothing to do with my point.

The point was, as shown by the fools gold that was ONE good Raider's season, that they myth of total rebuild, is just that, a myth.

Fans like to talk about the need to just start over, do a total rebuild, and just a few years ago was using the Raiders as the example to prove their point. Of course they didn't focus on the 12 losing seasons in 14 years, and countless top 10 picks and still they lost. But, one winning season and it's, "see, we need to do what the Raider's did."

Winning in the NFL is hard. Getting to the playoffs is a big hurdle. Winning in the playoffs a bigger hurdle. Getting to the SB is nearly impossible, and very few clubs win a SB.

Has Elway made mistakes? Of course, every head office guy does. But, to so quickly discount five division titles, two SB appearances and one SB win, as "well, that's just because he lucked into Manning" is really not paying attention to the NFL landscape.

There are VERY few teams that are constantly in the playoffs for 6-10 year long stretches, but there are equally few teams that go through those major rebuilds Broncos fans yearn for that actually come out of it a SB contender.

The Broncos need a better QB. That has been their challenge and until they get one, they are going to struggle. Yes, that's on Elway, but again, look at the success rate on drafting QBs before you call for firing the GM.

The grass is not always greener on the other side in the NFL. In fact, it rarely is.

Originally Posted by Tned

The Broncos need a better QB. That has been their challenge and until they get one, they are going to struggle. Yes, that's on Elway, but again, look at the success rate on drafting QBs before you call for firing the GM.

The grass is not always greener on the other side in the NFL. In fact, it rarely is.

The team that is in place is talented enough to get to the playoffs. I think Keenum could be better under a better coach and better OC. Not a top QB, but servicable. If Elway can bring in a good HC with a good staff and have another good draft, this team will be in the playoffs next year.

In light of recent news, I think the bigger question is how much blame should be put on Ellis... Seems he's sitting in the background meddling...

Originally Posted by Freyaka

In light of recent news, I think the bigger question is how much blame should be put on Ellis... Seems he's sitting in the background meddling...

That article is quite telling. Which goes to show that the ownership issue needs to be dealt with as soon as possible, because the more light that is shed on the subject, the more I am inclined to believe this whole thing has been a power play by Ellis. To think we could be sitting here today with Shanny and Cousins (at a cheaper rate), is a clear sign that things need to change at the top. With both Ellis and Elway.

I get to deal with the inept ownership bullshit all baseball season...it's be nice not to have to endure it during football season as well.

Originally Posted by Mike

The team that is in place is talented enough to get to the playoffs. I think Keenum could be better under a better coach and better OC. Not a top QB, but servicable. If Elway can bring in a good HC with a good staff and have another good draft, this team will be in the playoffs next year.

Kind of where I am at. Whereas last year felt like an old tired team with a bunch of journeymen quarterbacks cycling through, this season feels like a youthful and talented team with no direction. I don't mind rebuilding, but have some fun while doing it and get creative. Lindsay, Sutton, Hamilton, Freeman, and Patrick are a solid core that will only get better but they are woefully underutilized right now.

Every day this coaching staff remains Elway loses capital with me, but he has A LOT built up due to a solid run since he's been here. I feel more optimistic now then I did at the end of McDaniels' tenure, and that has a lot to do with Elway steering the ship. I think he will do what must be done to get us back to where we need to be. It just sucks that VJ had to be part of that learning experience.

Originally Posted by MasterShake

Kind of where I am at. Whereas last year felt like an old tired team with a bunch of journeymen quarterbacks cycling through, this season feels like a youthful and talented team with no direction. I don't mind rebuilding, but have some fun while doing it and get creative. Lindsay, Sutton, Hamilton, Freeman, and Patrick are a solid core that will only get better but they are woefully underutilized right now.

Every day this coaching staff remains Elway loses capital with me, but he has A LOT built up due to a solid run since he's been here. I feel more optimistic now then I did at the end of McDaniels' tenure, and that has a lot to do with Elway steering the ship. I think he will do what must be done to get us back to where we need to be. It just sucks that VJ had to be part of that learning experience.

Does Elway get the credit? Or should we give that to Manning? Based on the quality of drafts pretty much every season up until this one...and the quality of FA's brought in since Manning retired, I find it hard to give Elway any better than a "C" grade running this team. All of the quality moves he had only happened during the Manning years...when players knew they had a shot at a ring with a legend running the offense. Without a top 5 QB on the roster, Elway has been mediocre at best.