Thread: Jags sign David Williams

Originally Posted by Krugan

Kinda explains itself.

But, Booker is a 4th round pick, so as was said, he is living up to his expectations. Yet, others arent held to the same scale.

I think that gets to what im trying to say, im not calling you out, just observing how interesting it is when there is a pass given, yet not to everyone.

Do you have any specific examples to go on?

If Booker was our feature back, I would get it.

He's not, he's a squad/rotation player. And since not everyone can be elite, getting multi year production it of a 4th round is good enough.

That's not a pass, is a reflection that his potential lived up to his draft status

What about an undrafted player?

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

What about an undrafted player?

What about an undrafted player?

Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis

If Booker was our feature back, I would get it.

He's not, he's a squad/rotation player. And since not everyone can be elite, getting multi year production it of a 4th round is good enough.

That's not a pass, is a reflection that his potential lived up to his draft status

Right. I feel like people are beating around the bush and implying Siemian without saying it. He was the starting QB. Once you're starting, especially at that position, you have to be judged on your performance, not where you were drafted.

Booker is the third string RB, who is a role player in the passing game. If he were starting over the two better backs on the roster, the criticism would be totally justified. And if we'd picked him in the first round but he couldn't make it past third string, I'd get that too. But none of those things are the case. He's playing about how you'd expect someone drafted where we was to play, and he isn't taking a job away from anyone who is better. (Don't @ me with this Williams guy).

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

You can always count on King and Dave for reasonable takes. Booker is fine for the role he plays. The hate for him is stupid. He was a forth round pick. This is about what you expect from someone drafted there. The hate is stupid.

well, this is one time

And im pretty sure with a little looking you can see a 7th round qb and an undrafted qb not getting the same scale.

Im pretty sure your not getting my point, and as i said it wasnt directed at you, just at expectations for any given player arent always equal to a set scale, but to a perceived ideal.

Originally Posted by Krugan

well, this is one time

And im pretty sure with a little looking you can see a 7th round qb and an undrafted qb not getting the same scale.

Im pretty sure your not getting my point, and as i said it wasnt directed at you, just at expectations for any given player arent always equal to a set scale, but to a perceived ideal.

Think about what you just said though - that's a starting QB...

When you're a starting Qb, and you can't throw more TDs than INTS, you take bad sacks, and you can't complete any deep balls so it stifles the running game anymore, you're going to get lambasted. You're taking issue with a stance that is literally designed to not be a one-size-fits-all stance.

Of course I'm not mad at an average RB who is the third RB and a fourth round pick. He's there to fulfill a function that the other two backs cannot yet - pass protection. He's also in the game on those downs because he's more of an offensive threat than the FB, ergo he's giving us some flexibility.

Of course I'm going to be pissed at a starting QB who was amongst the worst in the league. He's the starting QB.

I understand the nuanced point you're making, Krugan, but I don't think it's really correct.

Good talk guys. As your third string back and a utilitu guy he is fine. I think part of thenissue for all of us is that we remember he was touted as a potential steal when most thought he would go in the second. Maybe we drafted a rotational player about where he should have gone and need to adjust expectation. Dog he isnt the worst back we have trotted out by quite a ways.

Originally Posted by King87

Think about what you just said though - that's a starting QB...

Again, your missing the point, the ire should not be directed to the poor ****** who got stuck in that spot, but the people who promoted him to that spot. Booker was drafted in the 4th, so its okay he sucks, but this guy was undrafted, in the 7th, the 6th whatever, and got a better roster spot due to someones decision, so he is just trash.

Its hypocritical.

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

Good talk guys. As your third string back and a utilitu guy he is fine. I think part of thenissue for all of us is that we remember he was touted as a potential steal when most thought he would go in the second. Maybe we drafted a rotational player about where he should have gone and need to adjust expectation. Dog he isnt the worst back we have trotted out by quite a ways.

Right, people are mad because of their own overly high expectations.

Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis

What about an undrafted player?

Don't repeat me, you tosser!

Originally Posted by Krugan

well, this is one time

And im pretty sure with a little looking you can see a 7th round qb and an undrafted qb not getting the same scale.

Im pretty sure your not getting my point, and as i said it wasnt directed at you, just at expectations for any given player arent always equal to a set scale, but to a perceived ideal.

Please tell me you aren't referring to Kelly and Keenum? If you are, that is an awful comparison.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

Please tell me you aren't referring to Kelly and Keenum? If you are, that is an awful comparison.

Why, we are talking about draft positions and getting expectations based on those spots. Why does it slide based on management screwing the pouch with positioning?

Originally Posted by Krugan

Why, we are talking about draft positions and getting expectations based on those spots. Why does it slide based on management screwing the pouch with positioning?

Where Keenum was drafted is completely irrelevant. We didn't draft him. We signed him to a big free agent deal. We paid him to be the starter, so he deserves every ounce of criticism he gets.

Kelly, we picked in the 7th round. So if he never amounts to more than a backup, that's totally ok. You don't expect more than that from a 7th round pick. And if he exceeds that it's just gravy.

I know you're trying to dig for hypocrisy here, but it just doesn't exist.

Originally Posted by Krugan

Again, your missing the point, the ire should not be directed to the poor ****** who got stuck in that spot, but the people who promoted him to that spot. Booker was drafted in the 4th, so its okay he sucks, but this guy was undrafted, in the 7th, the 6th whatever, and got a better roster spot due to someones decision, so he is just trash.

Its hypocritical.

I'm not missing any point. He's still playing as a starting QB. He's still there, as the reality. Further, what poor *******? He shouldn't have been drafted, let alone in the league, and we took him. He's now making millions of dollars while being one of the absolute worst at his job. He still got a chance to start for an elite franchise and make a name for himself. Poor *******? Are you kidding me?

Booker doesn't suck - he's remarkably average. TS was, for both years, near the bottom of the league in production. He was beyond being bad - he was horrendous. He was to quarterbacking what rocks are to swimming.

The equation takes into account your talent, your ability, your draft stock, your prominence, and your production. The bigger the role the harsher it gets - they're professional athletes...this isn't a random cubicle worker. And believe me, plenty were mad at the morons who put him in that position.

Take it a step further - TS is a backup, right? Well, backup Qb's are expected to complete over 60% of their passes, take care of the ball, and throw more TDs than INTs. That's not a high standard for a backup. TS didn't even do that. He didn't fail because he wasn't throwing up PFM numbers. He failed because he was legitimately one of the worst QB's in the league. And if the distinction is that "well he's so bad that he shouldn't even be a backup," then we agree, and I'm just pissed that he doesn't' even have basic competency.

Or are we not allowed even that anymore?