Thread: The Future is Here, Thomas. Keep being a Bronco Hero.

Originally Posted by Northman

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

No that's BS actually you called it the shittiest take ever when you were misrepresenting what I was stating. So let's be real bro you can backtrack now and act like you're just messing with your quote on quote failed logic which is not failed. The secondary receiver always benefits more from the number one. The number one sees more double coverage and sees more number one Corners. It's fact it's the way it works. Again my logic is not failed you're arguing based on your misunderstanding of my original post and continue to stand on the fact that you say that Sanders is as good as Demaryius Thomas and Demaryius has benefited as much from Sanders being there as Sanders from Demaryius. Here's the difference Demaryius was putting up big numbers prior to Sanders ever signing. The same was not true for Sanders case closed

No, your logic is very flawed. VERY VERY rarely will a #1 receiver carry any team without the compliment of another receiver on the squad. Case in point,

Jerry Rice/ John Taylor
Jerry Rice/ Tim Brown
Michael Irvin/ Alvin Harper
Rod Smith/ Ed McCaffery
DT/ E Sanders
DT/ Eric Decker
Randy Moss/ Cris Carter
Issac Bruce/ Tory Holt

The list could go on and on. If you dont believe the DT hasnt benefited from Sanders being on the field i dont know what else to tell you.

Sorry, you lose. Just deal.

Thus end the lesson.

Sheesh youre persistent. Of course there is a symbiotic relationship but an easy litmus test to see who benefitted more is how they performed apart from each other.

Rice/Taylor. We dont really know. John always had Jerry and Jerry was almost done by the time he got to Oakland. (Timmy was already good btw)

Irvin/Harper. This one is obvious Irvin is in the hall and Harper was out of the league within two years of leaving Dallas.

Smith/Mac Eddie was a decent receiver for the Niners before he came to the Broncos. and became a pro bowler when he played alongside rod and Terrell and Shannon and Elway. Rod continued to be a pro bowler after Eddie got hurt.

Dt and anyone else. A again the thing that you keep missing is that I'm not detracting from the other player. What I am saying is the other player benefits more from the relationship than the number one receiver does because inherently the number one receiver will always see more shade from a safety over the top and will always be playing opposite the other teams best cornerback.

Did Demaryius benefit from playing with Wes Welker of course. Did he benefit from playing with Decker of course. Did he benefit from playing with Sanders of course. But who saw the most benefit from the relationship? It is not a 50/50 deal. he is carrying the brunt of said relationship. He is carrying the heaviest weight. He is the guy again getting more double coverage and seeing more number one cornerbacks across the line of scrimmage.

The last two analogies are somewhat of outliers because they were essentially truly 50/50 relationships where both players were Hall of Famers and both players were good apart from each other. Chris Carter benefited obviously from Randy Moss but he was already a Friend Hall of Famer. Randy Moss may have benefited a little bit more not necessarily on the field but off because of Chris's mentorship. Bruce and Holt are both fantastic players in their own right and both deserve to be in the Hall of Fame

Originally Posted by slim

Rod Smith did not "have a problem with drops". What in the actual **** is happening in here?

See what you made me do? And in all honesty drops are going to happen when you're leaving your team in the league in targets. There are four or five future hall-of-famers on this list. But yes Rod led the league in drops twice and in fact in our first Super Bowl year he dropped the ball 14 times.

1996: Rickey Dudley, OAK. 17.
1997: Rod Smith, DEN. 15.
1998: Bert Emanuel, TB. 13.
1999: Frank Sanders, ARI, Tim Brown, OAK. 14.
2000: Rod Smith, DEN. 17.
2001: Jeff Graham, SD. 14.
2002: Marvin Harrison, IND. 16.
2003: Darrell Jackson, SEA, Fred Taylor, JAC. 12.
2004: Chad OchoJohnson, CIN. 14.
2005: LaMont Jordan, OAK. 12.
2006: Terrell Owens, DAL. 17.
2007: Braylon Edwards, CLE, Dallas Clark, IND. 12.
2008: Braylon Edwards, CLE. 16.
2009: Vernon Davis, SF. 12.
2010: Wes Welker, NE. 13.

Why you guys trash Rod Smith now idk

Smith did have problems in the beginning, but overcame and became reliable...with less talent than DT.

Nobody denies DT has talent. I have no doubt that he will absolutely make great catches, like last week. He will have dominant games. He just doesn't play consistently and he doesn't play to his physical talent level. That's what irks me. He could be so much more and he is paid to be more.

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

See what you made me do? And in all honesty drops are going to happen when you're leaving your team in the league in targets. There are four or five future hall-of-famers on this list. But yes Rod led the league in drops twice and in fact in our first Super Bowl year he dropped the ball 14 times.

1996: Rickey Dudley, OAK. 17.
1997: Rod Smith, DEN. 15.
1998: Bert Emanuel, TB. 13.
1999: Frank Sanders, ARI, Tim Brown, OAK. 14.
2000: Rod Smith, DEN. 17.
2001: Jeff Graham, SD. 14.
2002: Marvin Harrison, IND. 16.
2003: Darrell Jackson, SEA, Fred Taylor, JAC. 12.
2004: Chad OchoJohnson, CIN. 14.
2005: LaMont Jordan, OAK. 12.
2006: Terrell Owens, DAL. 17.
2007: Braylon Edwards, CLE, Dallas Clark, IND. 12.
2008: Braylon Edwards, CLE. 16.
2009: Vernon Davis, SF. 12.
2010: Wes Welker, NE. 13.

And there you have it folks.

Its difficult to watch the DT bashing for me personally. I get pointing out issues when they are there. I did the same with manning his final season and all his interceptions, god that was painful, but not once would I disregard what he meant to us during his time in Denver. DT has been one of the Top 2 WR's to ever lace em up for Denver. While he may not be in his prime a 1000 yd season is still very possible if he stops with drops. Lets not forget how many crappy Qb's he played for, and how many times he fought through injuries and limped through games cause of his hips to keep fighting. Maybe its just a lack of early focus...the whole team was lethargic until the last 15 minutes except for maybe von and Lindsay. His leadership also has shown itself in Courtland's development as its been stated a number of places how much DT has been helpful for him. Also there is a clip in Sanders Mic'ed up footage from the game where DT lights a fire under the offense. He could have gone in a shell after the drops but he kept fighting and damn if that wasn't a good speech. Father time may be catching up to him, and I would expect a pay cut request even if he breaks 1000 yds, but the dude is one of the best we have had in Denver and should be given respect. if you want to yell at your TV and tell him to stop dropping the F'in ball, I will be right there with you as its frustrating....but lets be real about one of the best to ever play in Denver at the WR position.

Vernon Davis got an effing ring.

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

See what you made me do? And in all honesty drops are going to happen when you're leaving your team in the league in targets. There are four or five future hall-of-famers on this list. But yes Rod led the league in drops twice and in fact in our first Super Bowl year he dropped the ball 14 times.

1996: Rickey Dudley, OAK. 17.
1997: Rod Smith, DEN. 15.
1998: Bert Emanuel, TB. 13.
1999: Frank Sanders, ARI, Tim Brown, OAK. 14.
2000: Rod Smith, DEN. 17.
2001: Jeff Graham, SD. 14.
2002: Marvin Harrison, IND. 16.
2003: Darrell Jackson, SEA, Fred Taylor, JAC. 12.
2004: Chad OchoJohnson, CIN. 14.
2005: LaMont Jordan, OAK. 12.
2006: Terrell Owens, DAL. 17.
2007: Braylon Edwards, CLE, Dallas Clark, IND. 12.
2008: Braylon Edwards, CLE. 16.
2009: Vernon Davis, SF. 12.
2010: Wes Welker, NE. 13.

I am not interested in your propaganda. 80 was clutch.

Originally Posted by slim

I am not interested in your propaganda. 80 was clutch.

Dude was flat out amazing, especially for a guy who went undrafted.

Originally Posted by Elevation inc

Its difficult to watch the DT bashing for me personally. I get pointing out issues when they are there. I did the same with manning his final season and all his interceptions, god that was painful, but not once would I disregard what he meant to us during his time in Denver. DT has been one of the Top 2 WR's to ever lace em up for Denver. While he may not be in his prime a 1000 yd season is still very possible if he stops with drops. Lets not forget how many crappy Qb's he played for, and how many times he fought through injuries and limped through games cause of his hips to keep fighting. Maybe its just a lack of early focus...the whole team was lethargic until the last 15 minutes except for maybe von and Lindsay. His leadership also has shown itself in Courtland's development as its been stated a number of places how much DT has been helpful for him. Also there is a clip in Sanders Mic'ed up footage from the game where DT lights a fire under the offense. He could have gone in a shell after the drops but he kept fighting and damn if that wasn't a good speech. Father time may be catching up to him, and I would expect a pay cut request even if he breaks 1000 yds, but the dude is one of the best we have had in Denver and should be given respect. if you want to yell at your TV and tell him to stop dropping the F'in ball, I will be right there with you as its frustrating....but lets be real about one of the best to ever play in Denver at the WR position.

No one is debating any of this.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

No one is debating any of this.

Some people are just incredibly slow but what can you do?

Originally Posted by Shazam!

Why you guys trash Rod Smith now idk

Dammit no one is trashing Rod. Im saying that you cant bash Dt for drops out one side of your mouth and then hail Rod as a great who had no flaws. I also stated that drops seem to always be overstated. We see our guys drops. Not so much the other guys. It is flat revisionist history. I love them both.

I just have never had any patience for those who want to tout the good ole days and detract from an all time great Bronco and teammate. It pisses me off. Dt was effectively the only Bronco receiver to even show up in Super Bowl 48. Set a record for receptions all the while getting murdered by Kam company.

And again. At no point in their time together until maybe this year was Sanders the better receiver nor was he seeing more doubles or more number one corners than Dt.

Why in the world cant we state flaws without it meaning someone sucks?

Originally Posted by slim

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

See what you made me do? And in all honesty drops are going to happen when you're leaving your team in the league in targets. There are four or five future hall-of-famers on this list. But yes Rod led the league in drops twice and in fact in our first Super Bowl year he dropped the ball 14 times.

1996: Rickey Dudley, OAK. 17.
1997: Rod Smith, DEN. 15.
1998: Bert Emanuel, TB. 13.
1999: Frank Sanders, ARI, Tim Brown, OAK. 14.
2000: Rod Smith, DEN. 17.
2001: Jeff Graham, SD. 14.
2002: Marvin Harrison, IND. 16.
2003: Darrell Jackson, SEA, Fred Taylor, JAC. 12.
2004: Chad OchoJohnson, CIN. 14.
2005: LaMont Jordan, OAK. 12.
2006: Terrell Owens, DAL. 17.
2007: Braylon Edwards, CLE, Dallas Clark, IND. 12.
2008: Braylon Edwards, CLE. 16.
2009: Vernon Davis, SF. 12.
2010: Wes Welker, NE. 13.

I am not interested in your propaganda. 80 was clutch.

He was clutch. Thats the whole point. His drops didnt detract from his greatness. And all the greats have dropped balls. It happens.

Originally Posted by Jsteve01

D


Why in the world cant we state flaws without it meaning someone sucks?

No one said DT sucks.

Man, I totally regret opening and reading through this thread.