Thread: Blockchain/crypto

Originally Posted by Shazam!

I don't have those answers, wish I did

https://www.wsj.com/articles/bitcoin...may%20be%20due.

Originally Posted by underrated29

Ok- so if the IRS changes something what I said when I said it is now invalidated?

Yes, because you were saying they couldn't possibly adjust the laws to cover any currently existing loopholes. It was a laughable suggestion then and even moreso now.

Originally Posted by underrated29

Ok- so if the IRS changes something what I said when I said it is now invalidated?

Not what he said.

Also:
https://cryptotrader.tax/blog/paying...0of%20property.

When the time comes, I'll take proper routes, pay what I have to and avoid what I can, that's all.

Originally Posted by SR

But of course what is? There are different types of 401Ks too...Roth and non. The rules for those as far as pre-tax and post-tax are the same as IRAs. One is pre-tax contribution and the other is post-tax (Roth). What do you mean by the trust holds the money? If I go set up a trust tomorrow, it's still my trust. It would be the SR Whatever You Want To Call It Trust. I'm still the successor, I'm still the owner. The trust is not some separate entity. If I own a business and I file income taxes quarterly or annually or whatever, I still have to report my earnings the same regardless of where the money is deposited in to. Right? So what difference does me depositing the earnings in to a trust have to do with anything? These are genuine questions because I'm not an expert and what you're saying is causing some doubt on my end. If you could provide quantifiable evidence to your claims that would go a long way on educating me.

Yes like the 401k, etc. You set up a shell company and have it as a trust. You take 1099/employee wages or w2 depending on how you set it up. YOU take the brunt of the taxable income. But you pay is 1/100th of the trust. Everything is earned into the trust which (just arbitrary numbers here) is 3% taxable, while you yourself take 40%, but off of say 25k. You still are in control of the trust, yes, it is still yours, but it is a trust. It is not touchable tax wise. As soon as the USA changed things where no longer do offshore accounts do anything for you. They will tax you wherever you have the money in the world- one cannot escape. Then everyone moved everything to a trust. And that is why taxing the super rich (while good in theory) has never worked. It wont work.

I do not know if you have access to any of the whales out there, but all of them have everything set up in trusts. Every single rich person or entity is a trust. The money goes in before it is taxed, it gets hit, but at a very very small rate, you yourself 1099 yourself or w2 or whatever depending on how things are set up and what your accountant deems is the best avenue. You take the major tax hit. But because you pay yourself next to nothing it is no big deal. I hope that makes sense man. It is the best way I can explain it. I kinda gave you the blueprint that you can take to your tax person and have them probably explain it much more clearly and succinctly than I can.

Your other option is a FBO which people get confused and think that a non profit or 501c3 cannot make a profit, which is incorrect. If you go that route you are basically untouchable with taxes. That requires a good accountant for sure, because if you are not 100% an FBO working under a god, then you will get IRS anal secs quickly!

Originally Posted by SR

Not what he said.

Also:
https://cryptotrader.tax/blog/paying...0of%20property.

So this part- which i have said many times too is that most places do not put the tax on the sale in the crypto world. If they do you have to. Most do not.

Originally Posted by Shazam!

UR is an expert compares to me, but things in the Crypto world is so new? A lot of it needs to be ironed out

Nah- still learning like the rest of us. When you have time get into those crypto rooms. Theyre incredible. So much to be learned. Still a lot of bad info and whatnot but it broadens the spectrum.

Originally Posted by underrated29

So this part- which i have said many times too is that most places do not put the tax on the sale in the crypto world. If they do you have to. Most do not.

Yes, you've said this, but haven't actually cited anything backing up said claim.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

Yes, you've said this, but haven't actually cited anything backing up said claim.

Well where? How? I do not think there is a blockchain manual, lol.

Originally Posted by underrated29

So this part- which i have said many times too is that most places do not put the tax on the sale in the crypto world. If they do you have to. Most do not.

https://cryptotrader.tax/blog/the-tr...currency-taxes

When Do You Owe Taxes On Your Crypto?
Whenever you incur a taxable event from your crypto investing activity, you incur a tax reporting requirement.

A taxable event simply refers to a scenario in which you trigger or realize income. As seen in the IRS virtual currency guidance, the following are all considered taxable events for cryptocurrency:

Trading crypto to fiat currency like the US dollar
Trading one crypto for another cryptocurrency
Spending crypto to purchase goods or services
Earning crypto as income

The Crypto world doesn't get to negate tax obligations or laws. If the vendor/person/entity you are buying something from doesn't put the tax onto the thing you're purchasing, you are still obligated to pay it.

It seems that your position is "if the person I'm buying from doesn't do x, then I don't have to do y," and that doesn't work.

Originally Posted by underrated29

Well where? How? I do not think there is a blockchain manual, lol.

The manual is in the taxcode, homie.

Originally Posted by underrated29

Yes like the 401k, etc. You set up a shell company and have it as a trust. You take 1099/employee wages or w2 depending on how you set it up. YOU take the brunt of the taxable income. But you pay is 1/100th of the trust. Everything is earned into the trust which (just arbitrary numbers here) is 3% taxable, while you yourself take 40%, but off of say 25k. You still are in control of the trust, yes, it is still yours, but it is a trust. It is not touchable tax wise. As soon as the USA changed things where no longer do offshore accounts do anything for you. They will tax you wherever you have the money in the world- one cannot escape. Then everyone moved everything to a trust. And that is why taxing the super rich (while good in theory) has never worked. It wont work.

I do not know if you have access to any of the whales out there, but all of them have everything set up in trusts. Every single rich person or entity is a trust. The money goes in before it is taxed, it gets hit, but at a very very small rate, you yourself 1099 yourself or w2 or whatever depending on how things are set up and what your accountant deems is the best avenue. You take the major tax hit. But because you pay yourself next to nothing it is no big deal. I hope that makes sense man. It is the best way I can explain it. I kinda gave you the blueprint that you can take to your tax person and have them probably explain it much more clearly and succinctly than I can.

Your other option is a FBO which people get confused and think that a non profit or 501c3 cannot make a profit, which is incorrect. If you go that route you are basically untouchable with taxes. That requires a good accountant for sure, because if you are not 100% an FBO working under a god, then you will get IRS anal secs quickly!

But trusts aren't untouchable for tax purposes. Knowing this to be true is why nothing you're saying is computing. The way I know how trusts are taxed is different than how you seem to be explaining it. It kind of seems to me like you're confusing income generated by the trust and income generated by the trustor.

I've learned a significant amount about trusts over the last 13 months, both from a legal perspective and as a successor trustee/fiduciary and how businesses are incorporated in to trusts. I'm not coming from a place of absolute ignorance here, but not an expert by any means. That's why I'm asking you these questions.

I also think you're confusing a W2 for a W4.

Originally Posted by underrated29

Well where? How? I do not think there is a blockchain manual, lol.

It's obviously not provable, but you have to understand when you make outlandish, unprovable claims like "most businesses that take crypto don't charge tax!" most people aren't just going to take your word for that.

Originally Posted by King87

The manual is in the taxcode, homie.

You are the taxcode!

If they do not do it, how are you supposed to do it? How are you supposed to be aware of federal and state taxes and percentages. How does one when purchasing online/crypto determine which state it is? Online is not in a state. Is it the vendors state? Is it your home state? What if the vendor has multiple states? What if the vendor is not operated within the usa? This is not reasonable for a consumer to know nor expect. Do you not agree with your litigation background with that last sentence?

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

It's obviously not provable, but you have to understand when you make outlandish, unprovable claims like "most businesses that take crypto don't charge tax!" most people aren't just going to take your word for that.

I appreciate the effort in some of UR's posts, but some quantification would be great. It's like writing an APA paper and forgetting your references and reference page.