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Thread: Bradley Chubb, Denver Bronco

  1. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoWave View Post
    Facts can both be true and not tell the whole story.
    That's fine. My objective was not to tell a story. Just provide facts. You want to tell a story? Be my guest . . .
    Though He slay me, I will trust in Him . . . (Job 13:15)


  2. #317

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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoWave View Post
    Facts can both be true and not tell the whole story.
    Congratulations on being more informed than most of the voting populace. I award you...#kinglove
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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  4. #318
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    Kin glove?
    "Tuning ... into each other ... lift all higher”
    “I’m just different!”

    Sign Garbage Minshew.

    Draft
    1st round— Cooper Dejean CB
    2nd round— Jack Sawyer OLB
    3rd round— Will Shipley RB
    4th round— Ricky Pearsall WR
    5th round— Ladd McKonkey WR
    6th round— Cash Jones RB
    7th round— Carson Steele RB

  5. #319

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Kin glove?
    That's right! I will give you old gloves that your family members once wore!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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  7. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    It’s actually “common sense” but hey, potato/patahto.
    You have actually heard a person say potahto before?

    You people are still actually thinking this team should have drafted one of those crap QBs or pay Cousins 30 mil per year?

    I also think it is funny how so many fans think having an overpriced "FRANCHISE QB" is faaar more imprtant than having a great defense.

    Even though the evidence is overwhelmingly contradictory to that fallacy.

    Let us know how many SB champions won a SB with an average defense.

    Potahto? I have never heard that, and I have been to England several times.
    Last edited by Broncoknight30; 05-19-2018 at 09:28 AM.

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  9. #321

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    https://www.theringer.com/2017/1/16/...s-5f71ab40f70c

    Read that link.

    Also, go back to the last ten SB's or so and look at the teams who are in the SB. Then ask yourself which names you keep seeing. Then ask if the team is predicated on the offense/QB play or the defense.

    Then stop talking about fallacies. You just like defense more and that defines your view. Somehow you know that the QB's in this draft class are all going to be bums. And before you start, I probably wanted Chubb as the pick more than just about anyone else. So hush.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  10. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by King87 View Post
    https://www.theringer.com/2017/1/16/...s-5f71ab40f70c

    Read that link.

    Also, go back to the last ten SB's or so and look at the teams who are in the SB. Then ask yourself which names you keep seeing. Then ask if the team is predicated on the offense/QB play or the defense.

    Then stop talking about fallacies. You just like defense more and that defines your view. Somehow you know that the QB's in this draft class are all going to be bums. And before you start, I probably wanted Chubb as the pick more than just about anyone else. So hush.
    Ok, lets do that. I am not talking about JUST THE SUPER BOWL GAME, but how the defenses also played roles in getting to the SB. Like the Eagles last year, who had a top defense and played a key role in keeping the Falcons to 10 points and a big goal line stance.

    Now, lets go over the ACTUAL FACTS, in regards to how it is actually the defense that is the key.

    Aaron Rodgers has not been to a SB since 2010, it is 2018. That year he won it, the Packers defense was number 2 in the NFL and gave up 15 PPG. They have NOT been the same since, and a large reason is because of Rodger's salary.

    Tom Brady, in first 3 SB wins, did not pass for 4000 yards, nor 30 TDs. They had elite defenses, highlighted by the defense that shut down the greatest show on turf to under 20 points.

    Roethlisberger both SB wins had the number one defense in the NFL the year they won it. He had a 22 rating in his first SB win.

    Russell Wilson won it behind a number one defense.

    Flacco's Ravens defense is usually quite solid, and do I find it interesting how since they paid him his large contract that they have not been back to the playoffs.

    Peyton Manning had the greatest year a QB has ever had. Broncos offense only offense to ever score over 600 points. Yet, that year they had the number 19 defense. Broncos get smoked by the number one defense.

    Peyton Manning, two years later is the 33rd ranked passer and had one of the worst offensive performances ever, yet they win it with the number one defense.

    Tom Brady again, and this time in 2014 (after going 10 seasons without winning it) had the most highly ranked defense in years. Largely because Brady restructured his contract, which freed up money and they were able to sign key free agents like Revis. They win it (again, first time in 10 seasons) on a defensive play. Then, in 2016 the Pats had the number one defense PPG in the NFL.

    You may want to give ALL of the glory to the QBs all you want. You know nothing about the sport.

  11. #323
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    You don't win with shit quarterbacks. Period.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

  12. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOtorboat View Post
    You don't win with shit quarterbacks. Period.
    Yeah you can. This team proved it way back in 2015.

    But a team will not win it with a crap defense. Name one that did win it with a crap defense. Just one will do.

    Go ahead and tell me why Brees has not won it since 2009, even though he has very very productive. Hell, he barely made the playoffs, and yet he has been very very productive. Tell us, why the Saints have not won it, even though Brees has been very very productive. Do you have any idea why the Saints could not even make the playoffs in those years when Brees was very very productive?

    How about Aaron Rodgers? Just a coincidence in your mind that ONE year "he did win it" (8 years ago) was the year his defense gave up 15 PPG? Well, he has been very very productive. So, explain why. Rodgers, has been very productive, yet have they not been back. Yet, the only year they did win it with Rodgers, they had a great defense. Huh.
    Last edited by GEM; 05-20-2018 at 08:49 AM. Reason: Rule #3

  13. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncoknight30 View Post
    Yeah you can. This team proved it way back in 2015.

    But a team will not win it with a crap defense. Name one that did win it with a crap defense. Just one will do.
    1) moderated

    2.) Denver dropped off a ******* cliff and was picking at No. 5 two years later. A great defense with bad quarterback play can fluke you into some postseason wins, but it's not sustainable.

    3.) The reality is good quarterback play and good defense aren't mutually exclusive and it takes both to sustain a winning franchise. It's not one or the other.
    Last edited by GEM; 05-20-2018 at 08:50 AM. Reason: Rule #3
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

  14. #326

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    I'm not talking about SB wins from the early 2000's. You might as well point to the SB's from the 80's. We're talking about a more modern style of play, starting with the onslaught of rules that favor offense. I don't understand how you don't understand this. It's so simple. Here, here's some more general context for you: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-nfl/96895528/



    You point to outdated eras and games. You ignore recent trends. And your memory is shit. The Ravens defense is usually good, but when the Ravens went on that miracle run they won on the back of the Flacco to Anquan Boldin connection.

    Did you even read that article I linked you? You didn't, did you? It highlights a trend offensive teams surging. That doesn't mean that the rest of the offense doesn't matter, or that the defense doesn't matter. So stop trying to strawman me so you can just espouse the same basic argument over and over and over again.

    The fact that you point to Roethlisberger is hilarious. Yeah, his first SB win he was a game manager and they went on a miracle run where they had to win a streak of games just to get into the playoffs. There was that famous clip of Bettis running over Urlacher in the snow, at Chicago, for instance. And guess what happened after that game? The Steelers went to another SB with another great defense, and that defense got obliterated by the offensive firepower of Arizona. And it took Big Ben and Holmes on a late second TD pass to win that game. And since that point the Steelers have become more and more an offensive team. And they've been knocking on the door of another SB and SB win that way.

    The point is simple - New England keeps getting back to the SB on the back of Tom Brady. They two years ago beat another offensive juggernaut in ATL. They just lost to the Eagles, and before you go nuts on how the Eagles had a great defense, that defense got an all-time shellacking by the Patriots, and the Eagles OFFENSE just bailed them out for the win.

    Before that you had the Broncos defensive team beat the Panthers offensive based team with their MVP QB, but keep in mind Carolina had one of the best defenses in the league that year, too. Note how neither team has been back to success recently, especially the older purely defensive team, largely because our offense has been shit. Which should indicate to you that a pure defensive team doesn't tend to last long in the NFL.

    But before that we had the Patriots beat one of the all-time defenses in Seattle. Or did you forget that one.

    Then we had the Ravens and the Niners - where it took Flacco going the **** off for the Ravens to win. And not, you know, the defense, which gave up 31 points.

    Then you have the Giants (defense) which beat the Patriots, fair point fair game. I'll just add that the Giants also had a guy who is slated to go to the hall of fame throwing the ball.

    Then you have the Packers (which had a good defense but that was Rodger's team) beat the defensive based Steelers. Are you seeing a trend yet?

    No? Then maybe you can find one when the Saints beat out the Colts.

    There's an obvious trend here - usually the team in the SB has a big time QB. Sometimes you'll see a great defense in there. Often you will see a great QB paired with a good defense. But it's very rare to see a QB who isn't capable of putting up a Pro Bowl season (Flacco's never had one but played out of his mind, and the last Denver SB Manning was awful) win a SB, and we sure didn't see those teams a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  15. #327

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  16. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by King87 View Post
    I'm not talking about SB wins from the early 2000's. You might as well point to the SB's from the 80's. We're talking about a more modern style of play, starting with the onslaught of rules that favor offense. I don't understand how you don't understand this. It's so simple. Here, here's some more general context for you: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-nfl/96895528/



    You point to outdated eras and games. You ignore recent trends. And your memory is shit. The Ravens defense is usually good, but when the Ravens went on that miracle run they won on the back of the Flacco to Anquan Boldin connection.

    Did you even read that article I linked you? You didn't, did you? It highlights a trend offensive teams surging. That doesn't mean that the rest of the offense doesn't matter, or that the defense doesn't matter. So stop trying to strawman me so you can just espouse the same basic argument over and over and over again.

    The fact that you point to Roethlisberger is hilarious. Yeah, his first SB win he was a game manager and they went on a miracle run where they had to win a streak of games just to get into the playoffs. There was that famous clip of Bettis running over Urlacher in the snow, at Chicago, for instance. And guess what happened after that game? The Steelers went to another SB with another great defense, and that defense got obliterated by the offensive firepower of Arizona. And it took Big Ben and Holmes on a late second TD pass to win that game. And since that point the Steelers have become more and more an offensive team. And they've been knocking on the door of another SB and SB win that way.

    The point is simple - New England keeps getting back to the SB on the back of Tom Brady. They two years ago beat another offensive juggernaut in ATL. They just lost to the Eagles, and before you go nuts on how the Eagles had a great defense, that defense got an all-time shellacking by the Patriots, and the Eagles OFFENSE just bailed them out for the win.

    Before that you had the Broncos defensive team beat the Panthers offensive based team with their MVP QB, but keep in mind Carolina had one of the best defenses in the league that year, too. Note how neither team has been back to success recently, especially the older purely defensive team, largely because our offense has been shit. Which should indicate to you that a pure defensive team doesn't tend to last long in the NFL.

    But before that we had the Patriots beat one of the all-time defenses in Seattle. Or did you forget that one.

    Then we had the Ravens and the Niners - where it took Flacco going the **** off for the Ravens to win. And not, you know, the defense, which gave up 31 points.

    Then you have the Giants (defense) which beat the Patriots, fair point fair game. I'll just add that the Giants also had a guy who is slated to go to the hall of fame throwing the ball.

    Then you have the Packers (which had a good defense but that was Rodger's team) beat the defensive based Steelers. Are you seeing a trend yet?

    No? Then maybe you can find one when the Saints beat out the Colts.

    There's an obvious trend here - usually the team in the SB has a big time QB. Sometimes you'll see a great defense in there. Often you will see a great QB paired with a good defense. But it's very rare to see a QB who isn't capable of putting up a Pro Bowl season (Flacco's never had one but played out of his mind, and the last Denver SB Manning was awful) win a SB, and we sure didn't see those teams a lot.
    I am not just talking about how the defenses performed in the SB, but what they did to get there. You point out how the Steelers defense got ripped in the SB, well they had solid peformances all year and in the playoffs and they won it in the end due to a big defensive play.

    Same with the Pats last year. They had the number one defense in the NFL in 2017 and they won it on a key defensive play.

    That goes for the Pats in 2014 when they had their highest ranked defense in years. They won it on a defensive play.

    The top 5 defenses last year as far as PPG,

    1. Minnesota
    2. Jacksonville
    3. Chargers
    4. Eagles
    5. Pats

    Funny, isnt it?
    Last edited by GEM; 05-20-2018 at 08:53 AM. Reason: Rule #3

  17. #329

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    Minnesota lost because it's offense shat the bed and it took a miracle just to win a playoff game. They just went out to get a new QB - guess the team that built that stacked defense disagrees with you.

    Jax lost because it couldn't score any points and they lost to the Patriots with Brady. Not exactly a great point for your argument.

    Oh, the Chargers? They didn't even make the postseason.

    Oh, the Eagles, they beat the other offensive juggernaut while their defense got shredded. Exactly whom are you arguing for?

    Patriots? Oh, their defense got shellacked in the SB and their all-time great QB was the only thing that kept them in it. I'm talking about winning the SB and sustained success via deep playoff runs. So stop calling me ignorant because it's insulting to be belittled by someone who struggles to even understand the scope of the conversation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  18. #330

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    Knight - it seems that you're interpreting our position to be "offense is everything," when you're literally saying the exact opposite. Regardless, the past ten years of NFL performance don't support your argument. You're demonstratively wrong. You like to imagine football to be akin to your position because you're an old-timer and it's comfortable for you. That's fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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