Thread: Broncos among worst in creating offensive line value

Originally Posted by chazoe60

How is Bolles a budding star? He was awful last season. He was the oldest of the 3 tackle prospects in last years draft and turned out to be the worst of the 3.

He was the best tackle drafted last season and earned all rookie team. A little harsh

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

If they got what they paid for it wouldn't be as bad as it is. Watson, Stephenson, Okung, is they played up to their contract the line would have been closer to average.

I didn’t say they haven’t tried, basically I’m saying they failed.

Originally Posted by topscribe

Why, because my world isn't as dark as yours?

A little optimism surely draws a lot of fire here. What's wrong with people on this forum?

A little optimism?

Btw, it’s not everyone on this forum, pretty much just me. I’ll remind all the butthurt Pollyanna’s that I was literally the only one on this forum that was “optimistic” about all QB’s involved in ‘17, now I’m throwing stones at glass houses because I don’t see CK as a massive upgrade.

What IS wrong with people on this forum?

Originally Posted by Jaded

A little optimism?

Btw, it’s not everyone on this forum, pretty much just me. I’ll remind all the butthurt Pollyanna’s that I was literally the only one on this forum that was “optimistic” about all QB’s involved in ‘17, now I’m throwing stones at glass houses because I don’t see CK as a massive upgrade.

What IS wrong with people on this forum?

I'm hoping CK puts up real numbers next season.

Originally Posted by NightTerror218

He was the best tackle drafted last season and earned all rookie team. A little harsh

He sucks.

Originally Posted by Jaded

A little optimism?

Btw, it’s not everyone on this forum, pretty much just me. I’ll remind all the butthurt Pollyanna’s that I was literally the only one on this forum that was “optimistic” about all QB’s involved in ‘17, now I’m throwing stones at glass houses because I don’t see CK as a massive upgrade.

What IS wrong with people on this forum?

Your opinion of Keenum is pretty empty because you are not even willing to look into him.
You said you didn't bother to read my post on him, which was all about him. I didn't
understand that because it took a lot more time and effort for me to research and write
it than it would have for you simply to read it. So you don't really know much about him,
and you don't seem to want to.

That's okay. It's your prerogative, of course. We're still friends. I just don't want to
discuss Keenum with you anymore.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

I'm hoping CK puts up real numbers next season.

However we feel about him, I'm certain we all do.

Originally Posted by Hawgdriver

No shocker here, but this bit of scholarship indicates that the Broncos have been among the worst in the league at getting value from veteran lineman contracts. I wonder how much is scouting/evaluation and how much is coaching/development.

http://scholarship.claremont.edu/cgi...ext=cmc_theses

The story is one of rank incompetence actually.

Over the years, since the Elway era, the OL steadily declined especially after Shanahan was fired in 2009.

In 2013, their pro-bowl LT Ryan Clady got hurt and missed the SB season. In 2014 he came back and didn't do well. In 2015 he was hurt again in training camp (same knee) and never really recovered.

During this time the team kept hoping he would recover. Meanwhile they managed to go to a SB with backup LT Chris Clark.

Since they got Manning in 2012 they were able to rely on Manning to cover up for the OL deficiencies. It seems like they felt they could ignore the OL and concentrate on other areas.

Their draft picks reflected that:

2011: T Orlando Franklin, 2nd round. He sucked at T so they moved him to LG in 2014, but he still sucked so they got rid of him in 2015. Another bust.
2012: No OL drafted
2013: Vinson Painter, OT 6th round (bust)
("We've got Manning! Who needs good OL?")

2014: By 2014 the situation was getting pretty dire. They were still hoping Clady would come back and drafted T Micheal Schofield in the 3rd round.

He was a bust, but 6th round C Matt Paradis has proven a useful starter (although he's had surgeries on both hips now).

2015: Ty Sambrailo, 2nd round & C Max Garcia 4th round. They pressed Sambrailo immediately into service when Clady re-injured his knee in training camp. But, he immediately injured his shoulder. They rushed him back after a couple of weeks, but he immediately re-injured it again and was done for the season. Garcia ended up starting and sucking at LG.

This was the year of the Manning self-sack. You remember all the DL coming totally free past the hopeless Broncos OL and Manning just throwing himself to the ground to avoid being crushed.

2016: G Connor McGovern, 3rd round. Despite the horrible OL they tried to patch the line up with more band-aids. McGovern has been a backup the last 2 years until pressed into service when worthless Garcia retired on Sundays and failed to tell anybody. He played well enough that they might even have an adequate, although not great starter.

2017: Reaching the level of absolute desperation they drafted Garrett Bolles at #20 of the first round. He immediately started and led the league in penalties but could improve with experience.

So, you'd have to say Connor McGovern and Matt Paradis are the one bright spots in terms of drafting and developing OL talent in the last 8-10 years.

Virtually every other starter was some FA they brought in whose previous team didn't want him, or who was injured and being given a chance by the Broncos.

The FA crop wasn't great either:

Donald Stephenson, Menelik Watson, Russell Okung, Evan Mathis, and now Jared Vendeer. Ron Leary played out of position at RG last year because the incomparable Max Garcia couldn't play RG and they needed to play him at LT because they had noone else.

They have been overpaying for below mediocre OL (outside Leary) for years now. They have to do this because they didn't bother to even draft an OL for years, and the ones they did select mostly sucked.

The best quality FA OL cost a boat-load of $ and the Broncos have been "bargain shopping" and coming up with mismatched socks and outfits that don't fit or the seams melt in the rain.

"We'll, ignore the problem and it will definitely go away!" -- John Elway

FA is a way to patch a couple of holes with high-priced veterans. You're not supposed to use it to supply your entire team.

McGovern was a 5th round pick, Veldheer was acquired in trade (not FA) and Leary moved to RB instead of LT. And * Well.

Just because I like correcting you.

Elway and company since 2011 have drafted like dogshit on offense. I can’t think of any impact players on offense let alone any that have made the pro bowl we have drafted since Elway took over as GM.

Originally Posted by Chillez

Elway and company since 2011 have drafted like dogshit on offense. I can’t think of any impact players on offense let alone any that have made the pro bowl we have drafted since Elway took over as GM.

Elway has only drafted two Pro Bowlers, Miller and Julius Thomas.

Originally Posted by Jaded

Elway has only drafted two Pro Bowlers, Miller and Julius Thomas.

Yeah now that you mentioned it Elway has been average at best.

Originally Posted by Jaded

Elway has only drafted two Pro Bowlers, Miller and Julius Thomas.

Wolfe and Danny T have made it haven’t they?

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

Wolfe and Danny T have made it haven’t they?

Don’t think so, Paradis either. This is from an NFL Network article I just read.

Standby for link.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...ert-among-best

If this list had been constructed after the 2015 season, Elway would have been near the top spot. If he goes through another season with the same old problems in Denver, then he won't be in the top 10 a year from now. Elway's inability to field a competitive offensive line, find a consistent running back or plan for life after Peyton Manning has grown worrisome. His recent drafts have provided few quality starters, and Elway hasn't picked a Pro Bowler since his first draft yielded Von Miller and Julius Thomas. Nothing can erase Elway's incredible touch in free agency building a Super Bowl champion, but the signing of Case Keenum speaks to a larger existential crisis. There's a lot of hoping and not enough home-grown talent