Thread: BroncosForums likely to be shut down

As for p&r being nixed, I agree it would probably solve most of these problems. I'd hate to see it go, but it would be preferable to the whole board going away.

Originally Posted by Northman

The only thing that has bothered me about the modding is where and what posts the mods have chosen to delete. Most of my grievances have come when ive been dinged with a CYP while having my posts deleted yet the instigators posts remain. I think that if you are going to try and douse out the flame wars that go on in various forums and threads that you (as a mod team) should be cutting the head off the snake in the process. So many times a member will take a jab at someone but then when that person responds they are the ones punished for it instead of the instigator. I dont care if the mods delete my posts if im out of line, i just want it to be fair and want "all" of the insults to be deleted. I think that is why sometimes look at the modding as using favoritism because some people's comments are left and that only pisses off the ones that responded even more.

But other than that the mods do a fine job. That felt good to get off my chest though.

I know it's hard, as this is volunteer work and often it can be very frustrating dealing with the squabbles, but I've had the same frustration. In some ways it's like hockey, where the guy that hits back often gets the penalty, but in our case, it's not like they missed the crosscheck that proceeded the elbow, it's still in black and white (or white and blue).

Thanks Wave for trying to work it out with Tned. You guys just might have to put each other on ignore, even if it's temporary until things cool down. Not everyone agrees but I think you guys seem to get into it more than most so...maybe it's time we all stop fighting and be adults. In the end were all here because were Broncos fans and many of us have been here 10 plus years, so talks of shutting this thing down are very sad to me.

Tned, please reconsider man. Everyone here wants to help. We've aired out some grievances as a group, things will never be perfect but you do have to realize you have to be modded just like everyone else. No favoritism and I think that's the way you want it too. We need to wipe the slate clean. I say give everyone a fresh start like it's day 1 of Broncosforums. You also need to use that ignore button more often like I told Wave. It's not worth it. Unless you turn the board into a less moderated board. You haven't been responding to my suggestions so....idk....maybe you don't want change and I'll leave it at that.

Either way if this does get shut down I wish you all the best moving forward.

And can we at least get a timeframe on this decison? I don't want to see this dragged out like an NFL bargaining agreement. The suspense is killing me smalls!

Originally Posted by Northman

This is Shane coming back at the tail end of Broncoforums.

I want to make this my new banner. Lol

Is that all this is about? A personal beef?

Originally Posted by Shazam!

Is that all this is about? A personal beef?

Tned blew the headed on his Aviator.

Originally Posted by spikerman

Tned, I think the only time we had an issue was over the Siemian stuff. I guess it’s possible that there were others that I don’t remember (sue me, I’m old). I will admit that disagreeing with you put me in an uncomfortable position because you pay the bills. To your credit, you never once used or mentioned your position in our “discussions.” Frankly, I think that, as the person who pays the bills, you should have as much say as you want about what goes on here. If I’m one of the people who you were referring to, I’m certainly willing to leave if it helps to sway you to keep the board.

You are not, Spike.

I know P&R has been brought up multiple times in here, but the reality is that in the recent couple years, it's been Broncos talk and my unpopular opinion on Siemian that led to far more issues. Tension with me and you, Slick and I, those that felt Slick wasn't capable of handling himself, so needed to troll me all over the site for "disrespecting" Slick.

Last time I walked away for six months or so, it was over football discussions. The mods got frustrated with King and I, and some others, going back and forth about Siemian in his first year of starting, and while I don't think I ever got a CYP, there were multiple times where a mod told us to knock it off, give it a break, and in rarer cases said something like, "stop getting personal." While I don't doubt there was the occasional rules violation, more times than not, it was actually just an opinion by a mod that King wasn't going to convince me and I wasn't going to convince him, so we need to just let it go.

This to me is frustrating beyond belief, but goes to how modding has moved from modding rules violation to modding us into a happy place and too much disagreement is considered wrong and must be quashed. We used to say, focus on the post, not the poster. Meaning, you could disagree all you want with a post and give an alternative view, etc., as long as you weren't personally attacking the poster. So, if you disagreed with my view on Siemian, and you said, "T, you're an idiot. Anyone that wasn't an idiot would know that Siemian sucks" that would be a personal attack and not OK, but "T, I know you think this kids going to do something, but let's face the facts, he's thrown 42 interceptions, can't throw past the chains, and barely looks like he should be a QB on a high school team" would be fine, because it's focusing on the post, not the poster.

However, somewhere along the lines we've moved to it also not being ok to disagree with the post or the topic, hence why I was told on multiple different occasions something to the effect of, "T, you aren't going to convince anyone of your position, so why don't you just stop." With zero constructive feedback to see where they thought I needed to change. Not CYP's showing me rules violations. Just being told that I wasn't going to convince anyone, so stop trying, I left and went to the Mane for six months, because the mods were clearly very frustrated by the fall out on my position on Siemian and I was extremely frustrated by the mods telling me to change, but giving no advice other than to stop trying to convince people of my position. You know, the things we do on a message board when we aren't talking about getting drunk and poop in the lounge.

Then, after I came back, but didn't go back to P&R (I opted out of that before the election and months before just moving over to the Mane), it was after what I think was a fairly minor back and forth between you and I, that mods called me in for a talk and told me my behavior wasn't acceptable, which came as a shock since I hadn't received a CYP since I had been back (and as detailed above, hadn't received many prior to walking away) and had really no other indication of problems. I asked for examples, and other than one interaction with you, which was brief, I was simply told again that I shouldn't try so hard to convince people of my point, or something to that effect.

I was like So, with no examples of why I was so hard to mod or what I had done, and I asked multiple times, I was simply told that I should stop trying to convince people of my opinion. I was also told during that visit to the woodshed that I invited many of the personal attacks, and needed to just accept it, BECAUSE I had created those handful of positive Siemian threads (stats and suck). It was a bit of a "we know your husband punched you and knocked your teeth out Mrs. Smith, but the reality is that you deserved it because you disagreed with him" or the like.

Really? Broncosforums is a piece of software for people to post opinions. That's why message boards are also called opinion boards. I think it's ludicrous that holding an unpopular position, and even defending it strongly in discussions, is akin to a rules violation or makes poster fair game for any attack that comes, because other posters are emotional about a topic and disagree.

Anyway, none of the above is related to anything you did wrong, but instead that a very small back and forth between us, triggered a conversation (dressing down) by the mod team, but with the only constructive feedback being that I should stop trying convince people of my opinion.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

As for our beef, tned, clearly nothing productive is coming out of it, so now that the air has been cleared I'm happy to leave it behind us if you are. Clearly you're not too fond of me and vice versa, so I think the best solution going forward is just for us to both get past it and let bygones be bygones, or just put each other in ignore if we can't do that. I'm game if you are. So consider this "Wave extends the olive branch, part 2"

Wave, I disagree with you on politics and Hillman and McDaniels, other than that, I couldn't even tell you any other positions we've disagreed with. For the most part, except for a few things that have become indellibly marked in my brain because of fallout (namely the one back and forth with Spike that led to a mod discussion with me, and two exchanges with mods, one with Top years ago and one with a current mod, that got personal), once a post/discussion is gone, it's gone.

For me, disagreeing in politics is no big deal, it's fun. I really don't get the grudge aspect and why people consider disagreement a personal offense. As I've said in this thread and others, I find this or other forums boring when everyone is in a kumbaya circle singing the same tune. I think life is much more interesting when there is a QB debate, for instance, then everyone saying, "man, we are so lucky we signed _____. He's amazing." followed by "no, he's not just amazing, he's ******* amazing..." That's just me.

So, yea, we are good, but if we go forward with BF, all I would say, not just to you, but anyone that feels the need to MHS or PM me with any "all of us" type comments, just lay it out publicly. If you or others think everyone hates me and wish I would just leave BF, then don't send it via MHS or PM, create a Town Hall thread laying it out there.

If people have issues with me, they need to sack up and air them publicly, just like the mods need to tell me specifically when I do something wrong, not lie behind the log for a year and then say, "T, you've been the biggest problem on the entire forum, but no, we can't give you one single example, just trust us your posting sucks and needs to change."

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

As for p&r being nixed, I agree it would probably solve most of these problems. I'd hate to see it go, but it would be preferable to the whole board going away.

For me, P&R has been far less of an issue than fallout from people not liking my position on Siemian, but I have no major objection to losing it if that's what everyone wants.

Originally Posted by DenBronx

And can we at least get a timeframe on this decison? I don't want to see this dragged out like an NFL bargaining agreement. The suspense is killing me smalls!

There is no timeframe. One of three things is going to happen.

1. We change some of the way we run this place as we've discussed a bit in this thread, including (IMO, but needs to be a community decision) more visibility on bans, and for instance that it typically follows multiple warnings and no response. Sometimes posters basically go suicide by mod, because they get pissed at a decision or action by a mod and then start spamming all over the board forcing the mods hands. Personally, I think there needs to be a move back to rules based modding and not subjective, it "feels to tense" modding, which at least speaking from my own experience (I don't see actions taken against others) is typically the focus of the modding.

2. Someone creates a new forum and people migrate over to it.

3. We keep it the same, but I'm fed up, so if someone sends me the "everyone hates you" nastygram, they will get a response of "great, go ******* somewhere else where they care." If someone makes a comment about being banned for disagreeing with T, and aren't corrected, I will log in with my admin account and ban them. I'm done with it going the way it is. I don't make a dime off of this, so being the admin and funding it all out of my pocket DOES NOT give others the right to take free shots at me whenever they want.

As I've said, I will honor the commitment I made over a decade ago, and that's that as long as people are coming, I will keep paying the bills and keep BF up, but I'm done with the status quo.

Originally Posted by Shazam!

Is that all this is about? A personal beef?

No, far from it. What Wave hit me with earlier in the thread is a feeling that has been expressed by multiple other posters via MHS or PM. Hence I've said it's either a position and feeling about me held by a vocal minority or silent majority -- according to them, a silent majority. I've been told I should just leave my own forum, and everyone would be happier (that didn't come from Wave) and I've actually done that twice.

There are many factors that have me fed up and saying it isn't worth it. I gave a few mods a heads up that I was considering this back at the start of March, and something happened the other day that was the straw that broke the camels back. It was a small thing, and I overreacted, but it's endemic of the narrative a handful of malcontents have fostered, which is if you disagree with Tned, the conversation will get shut down or you will be punished. In this case, a topic in a Town Hall thread was getting very political, and following one of the posts, I responded, (paraphrasing by memory) "Since this isn't in Politics, I don't want to respond to this, but I think your position is wrong. I think we should take this to P&R if we want to keep discussing it." Something very close to this. I didn't tell anyone to stop the discussion, I said I wasn't going to respond any further, because I realized we had gone to far and suggested (hence the "I think") we move it to P&R. That was met with something along the lines of "yea, everyone can say what they want, but as soon as I disagree the conversation gets shut down" or the like.

Again, that was relatively small, hence referring to it as a straw that broke this camel's back, but I'm just sick of the narrative that all is great until you disagree with T, and then you get shut down or banned. Not only is it the farthest thing from reality as to what actually happens, but I enjoy debating topics, so if I really had people banned or muzzled for disagreeing, I would be hurting myself more than them.

Well, Freaks. We did it again.

Where's clay when we need him?

Fair enough. So lets start with step 1, change the moderator setup and what their responsibilities are. Do we want it more moderated or less moderated?

And I've not seen all the mods post in this thread yet, only a couple. Where is Dread, Slick, NTL and whoever else???

I'd be willing to pay $5 a month to keep this place alive. Hell, I'm barely a football fan anymore but I still come to this place.